https://www.motor1.com/news/362492/c...box-explained/

 

Indeed. You would think some of these guys are taking it personally. Like I posted earlier, I have several air cooled Porsches and two watercooled ones (986 and 996) and am an absolute fan.

However, to be such a fan boi of one particular marque is rather silly. I'll continue to be a Porsche owner and will always have several in my garage. But, I'm also a Corvette fan and will have a C8 to drive along with my C7 (once any c8 teething problems are resolved)

Some us just like cars...any cars. That's why I've owned over 120 at this point ranging from lowly Triumphs/MGs/Miatas all the way to a Ferrari. I've enjoyed them all.

There's no need to bash any car. They all bring something to the table...no matter the brand.

 

Forgot to mention the shock towers blowing up and Porsche letting the customers insurance company take the hit.

 

rennlist poster A: OMG THE NEW CORVETTE C8 IS FAT AND AND HAS THE TORSIONAL RIGIDITY OF A WET NOODLE!

rennlist poster B: Hey man, just to let you know, the Porsche 991 cabrio is the same weight as the new C8, and has less torsional rigidity. The 991 Targa is a bit better, but doesn't reach the C8 in torsional rigidity. But both of those are great cars.

rennlist poster A: Really? Didn't know that. Huh. Weird.

rennlist poster B: Just here to help.

rennlist poster A: OMG THE NEW CORVETTE C8 IS FAT AND AND HAS THE TORSIONAL RIGIDITY OF A WET NOODLE! IT SUCKS!

rennlist poster C: Didn't rennlist poster B just say that Porsche makes cars at the same spec as the C8?

rennlist poster A: Huh? What? I don't remember that.

rennlist poster C: It was like 2 seconds ago.

rennlist poster A: OMG THE NEW CORVETTE C8 IS FAT AND AND HAS THE TORSIONAL RIGIDITY OF A WET NOODLE! AND IT DOESN'T HAVE A MESH REAR END LIKE A TRUE EXOTIC!

rennlist poster D: YEAH ITS FAT, AND IT SUCKS! YEAH!

rennlist poster C: Umm...

 

I see 10x more Porsche bashing (by just a handful of posters who do 90% of posting lately) vs Corvette bashing in this (Porsche forum) thread, the rest are complaints about (the almost no existent) Corvette "bashing". I also see that 98% of posters here just like discussing cars of any brand (both positives and negatives they perceive of each model) and agree almost 100% that the C8 is a very positive development for the sports car world and that it has a big potential. The remaining 2% are trying hard to stir the pot and make the thread look 10x more divisive than it actually is. I wonder why...

 

Hrm I don't see any Porsche bashing, I do see people responding to others putting Porsches on an unrealistic pedestal.

I'll even out the "bashing" a bit.

I do really enjoy my 991.1 C2S on track. The way it rotates around under trail braking and the way it puts down power is gloriously fun. Definitely drives completely differently than anything else I've driven at the limit.

 

We all are car enthusiast regardless of brand, agreed.

I find this thread more interesting than similar on many other forums talking about the c8 including corvetteforum.com , https://www.m3post.com/forums/showth...635360&page=23
and many more, interest level like we are spectating a Mars shot.

The worst thing for Brand/marketing Managers to a new product roll out is indifference , better to see bashing than be ignored.

GM Executives are patting themselves on the back to see this kind of action on competing forums.

The current decision makers at GM also realize the skepticism and resulting bashing is well deserved due to utterly poor execution overseen by the long gone old guard.

It takes more than just time to rebuild a Brand, every product being introduced to the market has to do more than just push the envelope, it has to shake things up.

One of the indications that GM deserves a second chance is they are starting to listen to their customers, for instance the paint quality apparently was at times hit or miss, I decided I would rather buy a c7 off the lot rather than order, just so the paint quality can be inspected first, although infrequent complaints on forums it gave me pause and justified the 25% discounts I was looking at.

Thus I can see a commitment to make the c8 a world class product by the relatively huge investment in a new paint line for a relatively low volume sports car.

I am an optimist , but this c8 will not be like any vette experience in the past

 

I find it humorous that some feel compelled to use such large fonts when citing Porsche or Corvette shortcomings. Is this the equivalent of shouting in a debate?

 

The examples are endless in business of successful brands that lost their way, and also of ones who made unbelievable comebacks.

This is Corvettes window of opportunity. What they do with it, is up to them. They have momentum so far, execute and you will succeed.

 

Yep, the rear end certainly isn't the C8's strong point. IMO it looks much better without the rear wing.

 

No kidding, that's exactly what I was pointing out.
The obvious clue you are oblivious to is this is not for everyone. Do you really think there is a market for a 2020 Corvette that looks like the spiritual successor to a 1953 model? Are you out of your mind? The Corvette style has always evolved, that's part of what people love about the Corvette. You can own 8 different models (like a friend of mine does) and they are all distinctly different.

What works for the 911 is great, that's not for a lot of people. Hence my comment about the woman who thought the 993 was a new model. After chatting with her she had some humorous comments about buying a $150,000 car that looks just like a 30 year old (or older) model. I was nice enough not to point out her new $75k Porsche was a dressed up Volkswagen though. Actually, I have a feeling she wouldn't care since at least it doesn't look like a much cheaper vehicle. Again...her perception of 911's.

You are getting factual & conjuncture mixed up.

See, I actually agree with you on this one, but at the same time I wouldn't pay that much for any new Porsche either. You also don't see me flooding up threads of those various cars crapping all over them with the kind of nonsense you are spewing in this thread.

Really, what is it? Did a Corvette run over your puppy when you were a kid? I've never seen this much vitriol nonsense in a while.




I'm always the off man out of this discussion since I don't consider most of the cars being discussed in this thread sports cars....but I digress to the below thread & article instead of going there in this one:
https://rennlist.com/forums/off-topi...ports-car.html
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...ar-definition/

 

I think the fact that newton meter rigidity theory has suddenly become the dominant metric in defense of why the C8 is lacking compared to vastly more expensive cars it will run with is almost as hilarious as the faux rage H8 for the 2 golf bag capacity.

I don't golf, I think it's an overrated hilarious recreational activity nonsport that can be played into old age and/or drunk, but most people know what a golf bag is more than they can wrap their minds around an out of context cubic feet cargo metric.

So the C8 sucks because it has a (real) targa top (as opposed to the pathetic, heavy, costly and mechanically complex Optimus Prime effort Porsche went with for the one button push market LMAFO!) and it sucks more because it comes with a place to put it, and it further compounds it's suckful suckiness because that same area also holds golf clubs, ergo it's a duffermobile and we have nothing to worry about so let's whistle past the gates all is well.

The one semi relevant concern may be cooling. We'll have to see about that. The Z51 pack comes with some kind of additional cooling but I haven't seen the specs. But I doubt a lower revving NA pushrod smallblock with front and side radiators and top and rear vents is going to run too hot and it's WAY too premature to say that just because it doesn't have an all grill rear it's therefore a thermal runaway car.

The C7 was a great car for the cost/value. The C8 is I think they said 10% more rigid than that and with mid engine will benefit even more. And it's just the base. A base Cayman price point car that likely will punch VERY far above its class.

But muh GT3 at 3-4X the price! Cool story, but you're making the Vette guy's point more than your own by arguing that.

Then the Z06 then the Zora...

But muh Cayman rigidity!!

Maybe Porsche will start installing plaques on the dash emblazoned with the newton meter rigidity numbers to make C8 buyers super jelly.

 

Yeah I agree. I despise spoilers for the sake of looking like spoilers. And I always LOL anytime a car drives by slowly with a retractable spoiler manually deployed

That said the Z51 spoiler looks acceptable (still better without it though) but the "high wing" option looks dumb and contrived. It better really bring the downforce numbers hard to the paint or it's just a poser option.

The biggest sign that Chevy is serious about this potentially paradigm changing budget supercar is that they, FINALLY!, have eliminated the gross chrome wheel option. That's how I first knew this just got real. Props C8 team for finally doing the right thing with that.

 

You see the same behavior on the Corvette forum, but fortunately it's just three or four posters. These posters are ridiculed for their juvenile posts, but they nevertheless feel compelled to criticize 911s at every opportunity. `So you just have to wonder what precipitates this behavior. I have rarely if ever witnessed this behavior in person, but unfortunately on the internet it's not that uncommon.

 

Seeing any “controversy” here is funny to me. The corvette build quality is likely to be inferior and the performance is likely to be superior to any reasonably comparable Porsche. Resale vs. a GT4? Use a Cayman S or base 911 and see what happens. Track performance costs much more with Porsche. And that’s ok if you have the money. For street cars it’s about the same as comparing Ferrari/McLaren supercars to the higher end of the Porsche 911 range to some degree. Different goals, different focus.

They are all great answers to slightly different questions.

The biggest issue I see when comparing our cars to others is Porsche’s own - their new cars need more soul. They have the image and the heritage and racing pedigree and so forth. But at the moment their product range is hugely competent, expensive, high quality, and a bit flat emotionally. Not sure why on that last one, but presently I think it’s the biggest weakness of the brand. A sports car is about soul, not metrics. Not lap times either excepting the Cup and CS cars. We want a better experience than a big comfy SUV or sedan can give.

I went from a do it all 991.2 turbo to an Alfa 4C spider. Wow, what a difference, in every way. The little four banger with a dual clutch has a lot of soul and character. Build quality, nah, it’s just ok. It’s lousy as a long distance tourer (very harsh and unfiltered) and I don’t use it as an exclusive DD. Dies it have brand heritage, sure, exotic appeal, yeah, more than the $200k 911 honestly. But the biggest difference of all is that it’s really quite a fun car to drive at any speed on the street or the track. Such a fun toy of a car. Weight makes a big difference but I don’t think that’s all.

Porsche has the engineering talent and the financial resources. I wish they’d broaden their design focus and goals to include making all of their sports cars fun to drive in street settings, offering a great sound, and achieving a visceral emotional involvement. Maybe hire a few Italians in Stuttgart to criticize things and get the engineers to make these wonderful cars more exiting in every day usage. And I get that many of the things that make the Alfa great make it terrible as a practical car and all that, but the 997 had great steering feel and that’s gone. The GT3 motors sound incredible, yet we need turbos on all Carreras. I guess that’s ok, but why don’t they sound even half as good as the Mercedes AMG GTs? Why can we option so many engineered add-on bits for performance but do so little to reduce weight or even understand what options will make the car heavy quickly... it’s not like the new 3D configurator will help you out. And why do they still use so much steel in the structure at this price point? I mean, that’s a dead simple way to cut weight - throw more expensive materials at the designers. Give them aerospace grade aluminum and a bit of Titanium here and there and require an exception/waiver to make something out of steel.

Ah well, at the end of the day it’s still a great product. Kind of like wishing a good friend would straighten up. I just think there’s some very low hanging fruit - room for improvement. While the C8 is clearly built to a price point to explain some of the compromises their team made, Porsche can’t fairly point to that.

Hope this ‘vette nails it. The ingredients look very good, now it just needs to come together as expected.