Phil~

It's a great time to be a car enthusiast. I have always loved Porsche, not for the "premium" car nonsense but for the quirky stuff like the guttural hairdryer sound and bug eyed looks. I think some of the new Porsche's have lost that magic, they are simply luxury cars now. When in the past they were sports cars. As crappy as the corvette may be to some, at least they are trying something different. Being Loyal to a brand is just asinine.

sithot

https://rennlist.com/forums/other-ma...l#post16006844

https://rennlist.com/forums/other-ma...l#post16007006

Save these two. So true.

K-A

Wait until the C8 reviews come out and they comment on how it doesn’t handle quite as well or feel as tossable and composed as a 911, and feels like a barge compared to the far daintier 718’s in corners.

Vettes always get close on paper, but never capture the sense of real world (or track) balance magic. Will the mid engine make it closer? It surely must. Will it exceed the handling? Doubtful. I’d put forum bets on it.

Nevermind inevitable build quality and any 991+ being 25,000+ deg/nm stiffer than the C8.

What’s funny is this has me defending the 992. I think the 911 lost its charm after the 991.1 as the turbos are cringeworthy in sound and emotion (or lack thereof). Believe it or not but I’m VERY excited about the N/A V8 mid engine Vette at its price point. But the initial C8 fanboying reminds me of the initial C7 fanboying. Which reminds me of the initial C6 fanboying. Which reminds me of the initial C5 fanboying. Time will tell how much more grown up the mid engine truly makes it.

I have zero doubt about the C8 falling short in total driving balance and handling/chassis composure quality vs the 911 and B/C. Consider my predicted difference “bolt on vs welded.”

And how well are GT4 resales doing? Right. Basically held over MSRP for years and probably are still selling for at or near. I’ll see your $75K MSRP C8 at >$25K on the used market when its warranty runs out.... or sooner.

Porsche screwed up the 718 by giving it a turbo 4 banger. It puts up little fight against the C8, other than the fact that I predict the stout performance will have it a lot closer than the 150 HP deficiency suggests (Porsche “more with less” black magic built the brand into the performance benchmark it is today).

GT3 by a country mile. Maybe I would (or will) choose a C8 over a 992 Carrera, but no way over a used 991 GT3.

Really? A 360 had a turbo? A 430? An F50? A Testeraossa? V10 Lambos? Mclaren F1? I can go on. Did you actually research mid engine cars before you posted that? GM gave up one of the most vital exotic hallmarks of a mid engine car by not going with a big cooling grill. For what? 2 sets of golf clubs, Camaro/Malibu design language and a space for the rigidity sucking targa top we’re forced into?

Again, C8 fanboys are looking to excuse the car at any cost. I get that it’s an incredible value. But there are lots of places GM clearly cut corners to get to that price.

And again: screw the targa top. That’s one of the inherent flaws of the car! So because of some forced targa top I’m stuck with a flimsy 15K deg/nm chassis and an ungainly rear that prevents proper mid engine exotic mesh screens that also double as massive cooling vents? Not to mention a 3,600+ lb curb weight on a car already as wide as a Cayenne?

I wouldn’t buy a convertible 991 for the same reasons. “Flimsier” compared to a coupe, extra weight, and on a more personal note, imo not as good looking. When I get into high mileage 911 (or any, really) verts, I’m immediately reminded of the structural rigidity differences. It’s one reason 911, or M3, or just about any sports car verts get creamed in resale vs coupes.

Those Boxsters were very rigid for their time. And again, they don’t weight 3,600+ lbs and don’t generate the g forces the C8 will, be it in thrust from a torquey V8 or grip from their massive tires. It’s no coincidence that so many people state that C7 Vettes feel worn out and change in character after several track runs, or that Vettes feel generally loosened up and squeaky prematurely. You put heavy loads on a body via a 3,600+ lb 500 lb car and you’ll find that 15K rigidity figure will rear its ugly head. Again, this is par for the course (golf course, apparently) for Vettes.

Again, you get where you pay for, somewhere or another. GM isn’t taking a loss on these cars. And to me, it’s clear the savings comes in the bolted chassis.

If they release a hard top version and somehow attain over 30K rigidity (still short of my 991’s 40,100, but I’ll take it) it’ll pacify me here. As of right now, I find it’s big red flag for a car with a 500 HP V8 and a solid bit of weight and capacity to hit 1G’s through turns. That $60-$80K Vette will feel like the $25K car it’ll be in a few to several short years on the used market. You can bank on that.

hf1

4cyl turbo 718 will be in danger from the C8. The right defense move for Porsche would be to go back to 6cyl n/a (they have that brand spanking new 4.0 developed for gt4/spyder), lower weight to under 2900lb, and keep or improve structural/torsional rigidity.

I cross-shopped and picked a new Boxster over a new Corvette (and even a new 911) in 2006 as a previous non-Porsche, non-Corvette guy. The C felt like a fat, insulated, discombobulated pig vs the tight, direct, responsive, and composed Boxster. Could care less that the C offered much more HP and much faster 0-60 for the same $. Also could care less that it was a Porsche and not a Chevy.

Noah Fect

The very same day the C8 was announced, there was a convenient "leak" of some shots of 718s with flat-6 engines at the Nurburgring. They went largely unnoticed.

I think Porsche has more or less destroyed the brand equity in those cars. IMHO, the best thing they could do right now is put the Boxster and Cayman on hiatus and bring them back in a few years in EV form, perhaps as Tesla Roadster killers.

2slow2speed

Seems like you are stuck in the rear end of the car, some folks tried to explain to you why there is storage space back there, you choose to ignore those reasons and you are upset about the fact that the car is been launched in T-top form. At the same time you bring up styling designs from mid engine exotics from the 80, 90, 00's to justify the styling of a car been launched in 2020, that is going after a completely different set of demographics. Take that as you will.

If GM can produce and selll 30K C8 Corvette's with the T-top and a convertible hard-top for the 1st year more power to them, there is absolutely nothing that precludes GM from producing a hardtop that will bring torsional stiffness up by a factor close to two. There is a lot more engineering needed to design a car with an open top that is stiff, than putting a roof back on that same exact car. It might be that GM decides to charge an extra $1K to put the roof back on since it will be a special chassis coming down the assembly line and that the car might need to be special ordered since market research seems to indicate that the vast majority of Corvette owners want the T-top.

If GM is interested in attracting people like you and me and others who like the hardtop, then they just might when they have less demand for the T-top. Do you get upset with Porsche when they don't launch the particular version of the 911 at the time that you want a car?

Most folks here try to make constructive comments or share experiences that add value.

I am not a C8 fanboy, I will decide if I want to buy one after I actually beat on one at the track at Spring Montain for a few days, those cars that the Corvette driving school will have 10-20-30-40-50 times the number of track miles that most people will be able to put on their cars since we can't possibly be driving the car on the track 7 days a week for 5-6 hours each. So instead of hearsay I will have 1st hand experience with a car that has seen some serious track miles and then decide.

K-A

Well, at this point it’s the rear, size and torsional stiffness that are issues with the C8 to me (frontal headroom remains to be seen and is the truest potential dealbreaker). GM dealer network and “ownership experience” is up there too, but for the value it’s to be accepted. Not bad as those aren’t too big of deals, other than the stiffness if you ask me. I’ve been giving Porsche flack for years for putting what I consider a fairly soulless and homogenized 3.0 turbo in the newer 911’s. Seems there are compromises everywhere. HP is a non issue to me. I don’t need 500. Honestly I’d WAY rather the C8 shrink an inch or few in every dimension but height, shed a few hundred lbs, and have 400 HP, if I had a choice.

You stated that no mid engine cars but turbos have the heat vents. I pointed out that nearly *** mid engine exotics that are N/A have those vents. The storage at rear clearly completely comprised the rear design and very logically cooling. Remains to be seen.

If Porsche puts an N/A 9A2evo in a 992, it’s game over if you ask me. I know which one I’d aspire to.

K-A

Thing is, the C8 is a very extraverted design. Which means it’ll be massively hot when it launches, then get tiring on the eyes. Much like seeing Lambos over and over gets old.

Just look at it next to that 991. It looks like a transformer, bulky, hard angled, shouty, large, imo it won’t age well if it’s all over the place. It’ll generate fatigue quickly, as the C7 and 2010 Camaro did. The 911’s secret potion is that it’s so clean and timeless that you can see them “all the time” and they never tire your eyes, they never age. They don’t impose on your vision, they just effortlessly draw admiration for their own brand of exotic appeal (so uniquely simple and exclusively positioned in drivetrain that it’s exotic).

We can talk about 30K Vettes sold like we’re getting a piece of that pie (maybe if you own GM stock, as I actually do), but who wants to see an exotic car you own at every lamp post? Kind of misses the whole point, imo. I used to tire of seeing my own E Classes and 5 Series’ around, and those are understated sedans. An overstated exotic? 30,000 sales is great for GM, but is a huge negative to me as a potential owner. The car will wear its imposing presence out if it sells nearly as much as a 5 Series does.

hacker-pschorr

The general public, I'm guessing well over 98%, cannot tell the difference between a 996, 997, 991...and any variation of them. A GT3 to your neighbor is just another 911 "with a wing" that cost you $100,000 extra.

Meanwhile there are 996's sitting on shady used car lots in every major city. Must feel really good driving around in a $300,000 super Porsche that looks like a winged up version of that $10,000 POS on the corner lot.

At least to the general person a C5, C7, and C8 are distinctively different. I left out the C6 on purpose.

At a recent cars & coffee a family was picking up their new Macan, the wife pointed to a local 993 and asked if that was one of the new ones. At least a 1996 Corvette won't be mistaken for a C8

Porsche has done a great job of keeping the platform true to the roots, somewhat, at least styling wise.....but to make an argument the C8 will be too mundane long term while in a Porsche forum is downright hilarious.


I love how the weight of the C8 keeps getting compared to the Boxster. Meanwhile a optioned out 992 Turbo is 3,600lbs.

STG

Great photo album of the C8

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g2...EFSSDIwTHg0UFk.

STG

d00d

Seems accurate, but when I'm buying a sports car I don't look for a Swiss Army Knife, I want a specific use scalpel.
What we have here is a compromise with it's removable top and large trunk, where the GT4 has a small trunk that is appropriately almost an afterthought.
If I'm going to the golf course the bag goes in the passenger seat, if I'm going with someone else we take separate cars.
Like K-A aptly noted, GM missed an opportunity here, the trunk area could have been full height open mesh like a true exotic.
Now every time I look at the C8 I see a sedan trunk grafted onto an otherwise likeable sports car, sad!

eltoshan

I read your post down to here and stopped. It's very clear that you have no clue about driving on track and have drank the brand kool-aid. For the record I have a 991.1 C2S and will be looking to add a C8 Z51 as mostly a track car.

K-A

Vettes have captured the real world and track magic of Porsche sports cars? Enlighten us.

Funny, what Ring times Porsche put up with their 700+ HP 911 vs what Chevy put up with their 700+ HP Vette. You can cite price differences all you want, but the extra cost went somewhere.

Are you implying C7’s are as or more fun and balanced/tossable on canyon roads as Boxsters/Caymans are?

Because what I stated is pretty well known factual. Not sure what you disagree with.

Caustic

People arguing about meshes on the rear of mid-engine cars, torsional rigidity on open top cars, too much weight for a sports car. Really?

Each and every one of these "issues" are also perpetrated by every other manufacturer, including Porsche. But yet, the vette is a mistake. Ok, we get it, you don't like vettes.