STG

More golf clubs .... LOL

K-A

Uhh. Yeah. You just described the 911’s winning potion. Lmao. The one car in the world that can proudly stay true to one design idiom thus never date. It’s why it’s in a league of its own to me. It’s why it’s the sports car benchmark, bar none, that everyone has chased for 60 years. That comment on the 993 is a COMPLIMENT. How much are 993s selling for today? How much are C4s? Right.

911’s don’t play for general rules. That’s what makes them 911’s.

Chevy has been all over the place with the Vette for over a decade now. No continuity. Signifying desperate attempts to rekindle share and enthusiasm. 911 never had to resort to that. That’s what makes it the ultimate sports can icon. That’s why resales are above any other car that get produced in similar numbers. That’s why the C8 will probably sell for less than my 991.1 (which has barely gone down in 4 years on the used market) when it’s out of warranty.

I didn’t say the C8 will look “mundane.” I said that the bold styling will get tiring to the eyes, and the exotic punch it carries will naturally wear off if they’re everywhere. The 911’s hallmark is being so simple that it never gets old. That a 993 can be mistaken as a new one, as you attempted to point out as a negative. 911’s don’t need to shout or say “look at me! I’m the new model! Envy me!” which is why they’re so respected. I appreciate that in world of purposeful obsolescence, as I find it more artful.

And the 911 Turbo has long been considered a heavy, sterilized beast. A hallmark in performance and luxury, but essentially too good and heavy to where you don’t feel much.

eltoshan

Here we go trying to quote ring times, the C7 never got a chance to set a time. But we all know that ring times doesn't really correlate well to any other track on the planet, now do we? Yes the C7 Grand Sport is a better car on track than any 981/718 that's not a clubsport, it's also splitting hairs with a 991 GT3. Unless the C8 is a worse car than the C7, it'll be a better car on track still. Also I don't enjoy street driving as you can't come close to the limits of a car without being dangerous.

STG

Don't think the 992 has had any huge excitement as has been noted even on Rennlist and discussed 1,000,000,000 times ..

The C8 is getting a lot more press and accolades. That can't be debated.





Yes, the above car could very well have an MSRP of $145K ++++

Big gulp cup holder and small nubbin electric shifter button no extra charge ..

K-A

My comment plainly signified that no Vette has beaten peak 911 track times: Fact.

Also that the 718’s and even 911’s are more fun, tossable, and lively on public road spirited drives than C7’s. Most drivers will agree. This is arguably more important than at-the-limit driving as it’s the most common form of enthusiastic driving to most owners. I don’t WANT a car that needs to hit its limit to generate fun factor. Limits are far less important in
the real world. What really sells sports cars? How big a smile they give you while going around a “twisty” road at 40-60 MPH. Hard to beat a Cayman there. That feeling is what makes Porsche the top selling sports car manufacturer. But the 4 banger turbo, albeit powerful, sucked a lot of soul and emotion out, which went against B/C ethos.

I don’t envision the C8 will be an emotive canyon carver with that mass and weight. Same reason the GTR albeit a rocket, emits no feeling on public roads unless you’re going into irresponsible territory. But perhaps the mid engine and N/A V8 can overcome the inherent chassis setbacks. That’s essentially what this car is. A mid engine N/A V8 in all its glory. Because a bolted together/no welds lousy 15,000 deg/nm torsional chassis tells me where GM “skimped” to get us the bargain entry price, is in material and chassis construction.

As for track, I’m sure GM will engineer the car to put up strong times. As they did the C7. But the C7’s track prowess doesn’t entirely translate to the real world.

eltoshan

I guess you really want to quote lap times

https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/virgi...e-post-01-2014

But you do you, go blast around some back roads and never get to the limit of your $100k+ car

STG

bertram928

+1

Even the base base $ 60,000 C8 i have on order (my wife should have it in Dec 2019) with the new suspension design is claimed to be the first car to pull over 1.0 G on all season tires (i think C&D quoted 1.02 G)

This will address the biggest objection my wife has with the 2018 Mustang GT PP1 the summer 4s tires, she wants to drive a sports car year around, can only drive the mustang till January in order to avoid tire damage.

I can then take the mustang and beat on it at the track, with the DTC 70 pads i put on the 6 piston Brembo's it has brakes forever

fast1

I'm a life long jogger, and do most of my jogging on country roads. In the past while jogging, I was always able to quickly identify an approaching 911 by its unique exhaust sound. A couple of weeks ago I heard a car approaching from behind me, and when the car passed me I was surprised to see that it was a new 911. It basically sounded like just about any other random car. To be fair the 911 was only going about 35 MPH. Maybe it sounds a lot better at higher RPM.
Do you think it's really fair comparing a limited edition's resale value to a mass produced car? There are approximately 1200 GT4s in the US, whereas there will be 40K C8s sold within a year and probably well over 125K cars before the model run ends. Compare the resale value of the 991 to the C8, and I expect that you'll find that they are very close on a percentage basis and the C8 will be the easy winner on a dollar lost basis, given the fact that the selling price of a 991 is well over $40K more than a C8. My assumption is that the depreciation rates for a C7 and C8 will be about the same. Lots of posters on this forum are under the mistaken impression that a C7 depreciates much faster than a 991, but an internet search will prove that's not true.
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/autos/t...he-u-s-market/

K-A

Umm. Ok. You just confirmed again what I said. No Vette has beaten the peak 911 track times.

Track driving is great. I wish I can do it more (or at all in my car, although I’d rather use someone else’s car for that kind of at-the-limit-abuse). But let’s not pretend like I’m the weird one for judging a sports car by how it makes me feel when I’m utilizing it in the real world, at “real” speeds.

How a car performs at its limit is great. A testament to engineering. As long as it can do it over and over again and not loosen up like so many state C7’s do. But I’ll choose a car that can make my day while going through backroads at 40 MPH anyday. And don’t assume just because your versed on the track, that that’s impossible. Porsche built its entire brand on it. I’d be grinning ear to ear in an air cooled classic going 20 in traffic. That’s what it’s about to me. Nothing more frustrating than a caged beast that needs to go crazy to emit feeling.

The 718 S, other than its horrid sound generic turbo powerband and lag, was one of the funnest experiences I’ve had. Felt like a go kart, fun at any speed, on any corner.

For the record, one of the most bland sports car experiences on regular roads I had was a base 991.2 with no performance options. The motor lost all of what I enjoy from my 991.1. So it’s not like I feel the newest 911’s are doing all so great a job at “smiles at any MPH” either these days.

bertram928

Wow, a $45,000 mustang gt PP2 beats a GT4 981

https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/virgi...e-post-01-2014

K-A

Same. I happen to find the 9A1 in the 991.1 one of the best sounding 911’s and cars, period, ever. I too cringe when I hear a generic turbo “whoopie cushion” sound, assume it’ll be like an Infiniti or any other of the countless 3.0 turbo 6’s (or even smaller 4’s) sold today, then see it’s a new 911. Then that odd almost synthetic EV like vacuum turbo sound that is unique to
991.2’s makes me cringe again. You can hear a little flat six soul in there, but it’s unfortunately masked.

One area the C8 will decimate the 992 in is sound. Ferdinand help the 992 if it sounds even quieter and more generic than a 991.2 outside. Porsche will need to bring the 9A2evo into the 992 to get me, and I’m sure many others, truly excited.

I couldn’t care less about power. Paper stats. I’m not competing with these cars. I want emotion, energy, feeling at any speed. Whoever produces that best, without comeoteou faltering elsewhere, wins.

STG

Yeah, a $300K++++ GT2RS ...

You can buy quite a stable of cars for that change $$

eltoshan

shhhhhhhhhhhh, it's all about the emotions of a car.... until lap times! Never will get to the limits of a chassis on the street, but it's all about torsional rigidity!

K-A

And worth every penny over the C7 ZR1 if you ask me. In every single metric that goes even beyond performance. And it doesn’t have a chassis with the torsional stiffness of jello (unless GM heavily beefed up the ZR1 frame).

I would never spend $155K on a ZR1. Not in a billion years. I’d have a slew of other cars I’d use that money toward.

If if I had a budget of $300K? The GT2 would be a top contender. Though since I already have a 911 at a much lower price, I’d probably go for like a 720S or something. That’s just how I view cars. If they’re too attainable at a lower price, that’s cool; but it makes me less inclined to aspire to pay up for one, as opposed to a car that simply inherently costs that much from the get go.