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The dilemma that Porsche has is that according to multiple dealers I talked to, there's almost zero interest in the EV 718. Meanwhile, people are scrambling to get the last of the 4.0L Cayman and Boxsters.
I think this is a big mistake, and might get a few early adopters but sales will taper off quickly - similar to Taycan.
I have a unique perspective coming from a 991.2 manual T, then went to a Taycan and now back to 992 manual T. My next car will be a GT3 Touring. The Taycan lasted in my garage for 5 months. It was an appliance and the antithesis of what I think of when it comes to a Porsche experience. No amount of fake engine noise or 2-speed transmissions can overcome the fact that it's a boring / linear / simplistic driving experience. I had the big battery and I still had crap range (240 miles) and never really got that much. 200 miles is a joke, when Tesla is about to have 420 in a Model 3. I should be the target audience for vehicles like this, I'm not yet 40 and can easily grasp the technology. Another issue I had with the Taycan was the update process, my car had to go sit at the dealer for 2 weeks while they updated my car meanwhile Tesla can push OTA's to cars weekly with no issue. The infotainment would crash and completely go blank on me leaving me unable to change the music and required a hard reset every time. It was atrocious. And updates were few and far between. I will say the build quality was great, however, as expected.
A lot of us go on drives on great roads, most are not nearby and sometimes I need to go about 40+ miles to get to a good driving road (Eastern Tennessee or Western NC), and then really hammer the car for 1+ hour on the roads, plus the return trip. I highly doubt that a 200 mile range Cayman would do the trick - particularly when you charge to 80% so that knocks down the range to 160 miles and you only get that in optimal conditions.
There may be a reason why no one else besides the first Tesla has launched an attainable EV sports car yet. Beta test this car at your own risk.
Porsche is in a weird spot here, if they wanted to, they could easily make an E-Cayman a 911 Turbo S killer, but. You know they won’t do that…. But they better understand that a Tesla Model 3 Performance can do 3.1 and still has 300 mile range for under $50K with better infrastructure and tech. It is going to be tough to try to fit it in between a rock and a hard place. Taycans are collecting dust on lots these days while Tesla has become one of the best selling cars in the world. A badge and prestige will only get you so far these days when it comes to EV’s and this economy, but with gas over $6 a gallon these days around here these days, there will be a market for a fun two seat EV if it is priced right and has enough performance
Porsche is in a weird spot here, if they wanted to, they could easily make an E-Cayman a 911 Turbo S killer, but. You know they won’t do that…. But they better understand that a Tesla Model 3 Performance can do 3.1 and still has 300 mile range for under $50K with better infrastructure and tech
True for sure. If Porsche had designed the iPhone, they would have prevented it from being able to play music in order to protect the sacred iPod market.
Then they would have had their lunch eaten by Samsung...
Say what you will about it, the EV 718 will bring advantages to the table that were not present before. The four-banger 718s really didn't. (a) Improved fuel economy was a bald-faced lie; (b) the last thing the 981 needed was quicker steering or better handling in general; and (c) and complaints about sound are really just a proxy for "This engine just doesn't feel right for this car, compared to the NA 6."
Like I said, it will be interesting to see how well received it will be and for how long. Like with any new toy journalists and media hypers will proclaim this as the best thing since Swiss cheese. But, how many current GT4, Spyder, GTS owners are going to swap out for the EV version. I personally do not see myself trading my CGTS or B25 for a EV version.
Originally Posted by SoCal-NSX
Porsche is in a weird spot here, if they wanted to, they could easily make an E-Cayman a 911 Turbo S killer, but. You know they won’t do that…. But they better understand that a Tesla Model 3 Performance can do 3.1 and still has 300 mile range for under $50K with better infrastructure and tech. It is going to be tough to try to fit it in between a rock and a hard place. Taycans are collecting dust on lots these days while Tesla has become one of the best selling cars in the world. A badge and prestige will only get you so far these days when it comes to EV’s and this economy, but with gas over $6 a gallon these days around here these days, there will be a market for a fun two seat EV if it is priced right and has enough performance
I personally don’t think that the 718 EV will bite very much into Tesla sales. Like you said, the bang for the buck goes to Tesla.
Originally Posted by smegman
I would bet a lot of money that it will use the same macpherson strut set up it currently uses
Like I said entirely pure speculation on my part with zero amount of information about the suspension. However, if they were going to put wishbone suspension on the platform, now would be the time to do it.
Keep in mind China is Porsche's biggest market and has been for 8 straight years. The 718 Cayman with 2.0L was specifically for the China market due to the tax structure there. This chart is from a handful of years ago, but you get the idea. The 981 base Cayman with 2.7L would have over 6% points higher tax than the 718 Cayman. The EV Cayman is geared for China too. I do know a few people here who are excited for the EV Cayman and they are NOT currently Porsche owners. One is a neighbor who had a MR2 back in the day and now has Teslas. Browsing the Rivian forums, a few of those owners are excited for the EV Cayman. So while the EV Cayman may not attract many of the current US owners, it is pulling in new people to the brand. Like I imagine the Macan pulled in a lot of new owners who had not previously considered a Porsche.
The dilemma that Porsche has is that according to multiple dealers I talked to, there's almost zero interest in the EV 718. Meanwhile, people are scrambling to get the last of the 4.0L Cayman and Boxsters.
I think this is a big mistake, and might get a few early adopters but sales will taper off quickly - similar to Taycan.
I have a unique perspective coming from a 991.2 manual T, then went to a Taycan and now back to 992 manual T. My next car will be a GT3 Touring. The Taycan lasted in my garage for 5 months. It was an appliance and the antithesis of what I think of when it comes to a Porsche experience. No amount of fake engine noise or 2-speed transmissions can overcome the fact that it's a boring / linear / simplistic driving experience. I had the big battery and I still had crap range (240 miles) and never really got that much. 200 miles is a joke, when Tesla is about to have 420 in a Model 3. I should be the target audience for vehicles like this, I'm not yet 40 and can easily grasp the technology. Another issue I had with the Taycan was the update process, my car had to go sit at the dealer for 2 weeks while they updated my car meanwhile Tesla can push OTA's to cars weekly with no issue. The infotainment would crash and completely go blank on me leaving me unable to change the music and required a hard reset every time. It was atrocious. And updates were few and far between. I will say the build quality was great, however, as expected.
A lot of us go on drives on great roads, most are not nearby and sometimes I need to go about 40+ miles to get to a good driving road (Eastern Tennessee or Western NC), and then really hammer the car for 1+ hour on the roads, plus the return trip. I highly doubt that a 200 mile range Cayman would do the trick - particularly when you charge to 80% so that knocks down the range to 160 miles and you only get that in optimal conditions.
There may be a reason why no one else besides the first Tesla has launched an attainable EV sports car yet. Beta test this car at your own risk.
If people cross shop the EV 718 with a Model 3 it's a big problem for Porsche. There isn't really a logical reason to choose the ICE 718 over a Tesla today. Maybe if you track your car, but otherwise it's all emotional and driving enjoyment over logic. If the 718 EV doesn't have the emotional part and we start comparing a 718 EV to a Tesla in terms of tech and range, it's over before it starts. If the 718 has the Taycan problems you described, it's not going to go well either. I really don't know who will buy this. I don't see overwhelming support around here to say the least. Tesla owners are not switching to a 2-seater sports car either. Maybe there is an untapped market somewhere.
Since tracking an EV as of now is generally a non-starter given the range and lack of charging stations at most tracks (not all, but most), a 718 EV is basically a glorified Chevy Volt, at something like 2x the price.
Porsche has enough difficulties selling regular ICE 718 (ex. any 718 with a 4.0). Now they have to peddle the same car that suffers from range anxiety, is heavier, and probably not as emotional to drive than its evil ICE counterpart.
If people cross shop the EV 718 with a Model 3 it's a big problem for Porsche. There isn't really a logical reason to choose the ICE 718 over a Tesla today. Maybe if you track your car, but otherwise it's all emotional and driving enjoyment over logic. If the 718 EV doesn't have the emotional part and we start comparing a 718 EV to a Tesla in terms of tech and range, it's over before it starts. If the 718 has the Taycan problems you described, it's not going to go well either. I really don't know who will buy this. I don't see overwhelming support around here to say the least. Tesla owners are not switching to a 2-seater sports car either. Maybe there is an untapped market somewhere.
agree it’s an interesting question. I do know a lot of guys under 40 who don’t have a model 3, they have a model 3 performance (M3P). Huge difference.
For low 50K of cost you get 0-60 in 3.1 seconds and a fairly fun track mode (for the one lap)! You also get access to a charging network that is 1000x better than EA. I did coilovers on my M3P and she now handles dramatically better.
The M3P is my daily, that I beat up, park wherever, travel with the dog, drive on crappy roads in winter etc.
For weekend fun, I grab the keys to my 991.2 GT3, NOT the M3P.
All that said, I’d still consider buying a top line Cayman EV to replace my M3P, but only if I buy it through my business so it’s basically free, and not in the first year of production. I’m a bit more reluctant to switch for some of the reasons you stated.
The EV Cayman has a much more narrow band of use and appeal compared to a four door Tesla model 3 or Y, with plenty of space for cargo and passengers, and a much better charging network.
Wouldn't be surprised if the Cayman goes on hiatus for a couple of years while they watch what happens with the Boxster. Track rats buy Caymans, and they aren't in the market for EVs, by and large.
If you ever thought or think Porsche is replacing the 718 ICE version with electric by 2025 you are retarded lol. I called this last year. They have barely been fielding a prototype for a year. Full scale production EV 718 by the year 2026 at the earliest. There's just no way they can crank out a new platform at such a rate. They had trouble getting just computer chips...
If you ever thought or think Porsche is replacing the 718 ICE version with electric by 2025 you are retarded lol. I called this last year. They have barely been fielding a prototype for a year. Full scale production EV 718 by the year 2026 at the earliest. There's just no way they can crank out a new platform at such a rate. They had trouble getting just computer chips...
If you ever thought or think Porsche is replacing the 718 ICE version with electric by 2025 you are delete.... I called this last year. They have barely been fielding a prototype for a year. Full scale production EV 718 by the year 2026 at the earliest. There's just no way they can crank out a new platform at such a rate. They had trouble getting just computer chips...
Two issues.here:
PAG has repeatedly stated that the 982 ICE will be sold alongside the 983 EV for a year or two post EV launch. So "replace" is a phased approach. Same as with Macan.
With respect to the new platform, it'll be the same scalable PPE platform as all EV Porsche going forward. All the heavy PPE platform developmental lifting is with the Macan EV. Expect 983 EV to follow ~ w/in a year of Macan EV.
09-19-2023, 02:30 PM
