The Giant EV General Discussion Thread
12-29-2023, 02:21 PM
#556
Instructor
I guess its safe to say that you pick stocks based on historical performance...
12-29-2023, 02:35 PM
#557
Also, I'm more about dividend paying stocks nowadays. Investing things that people are addicted to like alcohol and tobacco! Both are cheap and people of every economic level using more when the economy crashes.
12-29-2023, 02:35 PM
#558
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority
Read The Federalist Papers
But, while we're talking logic....you stated in your first post that middle America is fly-over country. That alone goes to show your ignorance which matches up with that of the coastal cities. They care so little about the bulk of America that they don't even desire to visit it, let alone drive through it. They'd rather pretend to be some global elitists and travel to Europe or some Caribbean island for their social media likes.
They don't know how the people in this country live. The ones that provide all of their food from the farms. They think they're better than them, but the reality is these liberal cities are filled with a bunch of people that really don't know ****, but think they do because they read it in a book somewhere.
I'd highly recommend you take a couple weeks of vacation this year in places like Iowa, Nebraska, the Dakotas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama. etc. Maybe you'll see things differently.
They don't know how the people in this country live. The ones that provide all of their food from the farms. They think they're better than them, but the reality is these liberal cities are filled with a bunch of people that really don't know ****, but think they do because they read it in a book somewhere.
I'd highly recommend you take a couple weeks of vacation this year in places like Iowa, Nebraska, the Dakotas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama. etc. Maybe you'll see things differently.
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tonie90 (12-29-2023)
12-30-2023, 01:48 AM
#559
lol what? NYC/LA/Miami probably account for about 13 million people and the United states has 330 million. I'm not sure you're doing yourself any favors here with that type of claim.
But, while we're talking logic....you stated in your first post that middle America is fly-over country. That alone goes to show your ignorance which matches up with that of the coastal cities.
But, while we're talking logic....you stated in your first post that middle America is fly-over country. That alone goes to show your ignorance which matches up with that of the coastal cities.
12-30-2023, 08:37 AM
#560
RL Community Team
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Wow, such thread derail…geography, population, with a little political slant thrown in.
Please this is a technical discussion on the upcoming 718 EV platform.
Let’s get back on that track.
It is coming…
Please this is a technical discussion on the upcoming 718 EV platform.
Let’s get back on that track.
It is coming…
12-30-2023, 04:20 PM
#561
yeah, unfortunately EV's trigger some folks on car forums......I don't get it
12-31-2023, 09:45 AM
#562
Burning Brakes
Hence the single thread with few posts for the next generation Porsche sports car.
Some potential topics for future discussion:
- How much of an overweight pig the car will be?
- How poor the range will be (sub-200 quoted, 120 real world actual?)
- What kind of goofy space ship noise will they create to inject “soul” into the car?
- Not being able to take your Porsche sports car to the track
- The excitement of a single speed transmission!
- Which of your favorite social media influencers will get one first?
- Porsche’s buggy EV software and horrible update process (dealer had my Taycan for 3 weeks for an update!)
- How fast will the values plummet (Taycan levels or worse? Because these are even less useable as sports cars / commuter cars - more disposable)
- How quickly owners will regret the purchase? Me personally, it took about 4 weeks.
Just some ideas.
12-31-2023, 11:14 AM
#563
RL Community Team
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Dude, please troll elsewhere…
I think you’ve made your position perfectly clear; repeatedly.
I think you’ve made your position perfectly clear; repeatedly.
12-31-2023, 11:39 AM
#564
Burning Brakes
12-31-2023, 12:54 PM
#565
Drifting
I guess there’s only so much to discuss when the locomotion method is as exciting as a refrigerator…
Hence the single thread with few posts for the next generation Porsche sports car.
Some potential topics for future discussion:
- How much of an overweight pig the car will be?
- How poor the range will be (sub-200 quoted, 120 real world actual?)
- What kind of goofy space ship noise will they create to inject “soul” into the car?
- Not being able to take your Porsche sports car to the track
- The excitement of a single speed transmission!
- Which of your favorite social media influencers will get one first?
- Porsche’s buggy EV software and horrible update process (dealer had my Taycan for 3 weeks for an update!)
- How fast will the values plummet (Taycan levels or worse? Because these are even less useable as sports cars / commuter cars - more disposable)
- How quickly owners will regret the purchase? Me personally, it took about 4 weeks.
Just some ideas.
Hence the single thread with few posts for the next generation Porsche sports car.
Some potential topics for future discussion:
- How much of an overweight pig the car will be?
- How poor the range will be (sub-200 quoted, 120 real world actual?)
- What kind of goofy space ship noise will they create to inject “soul” into the car?
- Not being able to take your Porsche sports car to the track
- The excitement of a single speed transmission!
- Which of your favorite social media influencers will get one first?
- Porsche’s buggy EV software and horrible update process (dealer had my Taycan for 3 weeks for an update!)
- How fast will the values plummet (Taycan levels or worse? Because these are even less useable as sports cars / commuter cars - more disposable)
- How quickly owners will regret the purchase? Me personally, it took about 4 weeks.
Just some ideas.
solid state batteries are a big deal-
*1/3 of weight (or triple range with same weight)
*Charge twice as fast
*5x the number of charge cycles=longer car life
*More stable with much less fire risk.
They are difficult to make and multiple companies are working on them. Once a dependable solid state car battery is developed, every current EV on the planet will be worth dramatically less, as they will be obsolete compared to the EVs with solid state batteries.
That gives me pause before paying 90 to 100k for an electric 718 with traditional lithium batteries.
*1/3 of weight (or triple range with same weight)
*Charge twice as fast
*5x the number of charge cycles=longer car life
*More stable with much less fire risk.
They are difficult to make and multiple companies are working on them. Once a dependable solid state car battery is developed, every current EV on the planet will be worth dramatically less, as they will be obsolete compared to the EVs with solid state batteries.
That gives me pause before paying 90 to 100k for an electric 718 with traditional lithium batteries.
It's one of the reasons I bought my GT4 and wasn't worried about it depreciating with this lump replacing the platform, and it's one of the better performing Porsches for depreciation according to the youtube car value stats guys.
Last edited by Zhao; 12-31-2023 at 12:55 PM.
12-31-2023, 01:01 PM
#567
Drifting
I'd argue it's a position responding to every bit of new data we get that just gets reaffirmed more strongly, or in different ways to the same outcome. He's someone who jumped on EVs, and so am I, so we saw something there and responded when we saw a reason to buy one. But this thing remains a 'who's dream car is this thing???' car with no real positive answers to why would I spend money on it. Hopefully it looks cool is all I can think of for something positive about it.
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Schnll (12-31-2023)
12-31-2023, 02:19 PM
#568
Unlikely at best. They might say, "Well, at least it had a steering wheel" but that'll be about it.
I don't have any reason to think that "it's going to be garbage," as you put it, but I also have no reason to think that the 718EV will be something that holds any value over time. Depreciation on early-generation EVs is going to be murderous, especially as more manufacturers get into the game. Even at this late date, spending a lot of money on a high-end ICE sports car can still be gratifying. But spending money on a high-priced EV will be widely recognized as a sucker's game. Bad news if that's all you have to sell.
12-31-2023, 05:49 PM
#569
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I guess there’s only so much to discuss when the locomotion method is as exciting as a refrigerator…
Hence the single thread with few posts for the next generation Porsche sports car.
Some potential topics for future discussion:
- How much of an overweight pig the car will be?
- How poor the range will be (sub-200 quoted, 120 real world actual?)
- What kind of goofy space ship noise will they create to inject “soul” into the car?
- Not being able to take your Porsche sports car to the track
- The excitement of a single speed transmission!
- Which of your favorite social media influencers will get one first?
- Porsche’s buggy EV software and horrible update process (dealer had my Taycan for 3 weeks for an update!)
- How fast will the values plummet (Taycan levels or worse? Because these are even less useable as sports cars / commuter cars - more disposable)
- How quickly owners will regret the purchase? Me personally, it took about 4 weeks.
Just some ideas.
Hence the single thread with few posts for the next generation Porsche sports car.
Some potential topics for future discussion:
- How much of an overweight pig the car will be?
- How poor the range will be (sub-200 quoted, 120 real world actual?)
- What kind of goofy space ship noise will they create to inject “soul” into the car?
- Not being able to take your Porsche sports car to the track
- The excitement of a single speed transmission!
- Which of your favorite social media influencers will get one first?
- Porsche’s buggy EV software and horrible update process (dealer had my Taycan for 3 weeks for an update!)
- How fast will the values plummet (Taycan levels or worse? Because these are even less useable as sports cars / commuter cars - more disposable)
- How quickly owners will regret the purchase? Me personally, it took about 4 weeks.
Just some ideas.
Some people get excited by the sounds of rhythmic explosions of fuel, other get irritated, I fall in between and sometimes fall on both sides. Driving a responsive, nimble, and silent car is quite satisfying for me. I like being able to have fun without a loud exhaust drawing attention to me and annoying bystanders. Always being in the power band without having the engine always screaming at high RPM or waiting for turbo spool-up, and never having to wait for a transmission to shift is great. Dual clutch or automatic transmissions in auto mode feel archaic compared to always being in the ideal gear.
Always being fully fueled/charged when you leave home is great, and over time EV charging stations are proliferating for the occasional long drive. If you’re going on a road trip to a distant mountain, just fast charge in the nearest town to the mountain, and while you’ll use up considerable charge on the way up, quite a bit can be regained on the way down. I got around 450 km range in a Taycan driving it the way I normally do (mix of normal and enthusiastic driving), and that was with 2020-era EV technology. Probably the upcoming Taycan will get 500-550 km range with a similar style of driving.
EV tech is definitely advancing, and I do expect the new 718 EV’s tech to be outdated in terms of range and weight, but it will still keep most of the performance it started with; battery degradation on EVs tends to be quite minimal. I’m guessing the new 718 EV will have 400-450 km of range with my typical driving style, which is fine for most driving. I’ll just need to fast charge a couple times on road trips, but that shouldn’t be a problem once Porsches can use Tesla’s reliable charger network. I don’t expect the depreciation to be any worse than most ICE luxury cars.
Tracks will need to get with the times and install fast chargers; some are already doing that. Existing EV tech is fine for doing 20 minute DE sessions and charging in between sessions, chargers are just needed at track.
Botched firmware updates were a Porsche issue, not an EV issue. Tesla, an EV only brand, handles OTA updates like clockwork. Porsche is learning but hopefully they’ll do better in the future. Any future ICE Porsches will need firmware updates just the same; it’s just a useful feature of modern electrical architectures for vehicles to be able to fix and improve firmware of vehicles in the field.
I don’t plan to ever sell my 718 Spyder, it will remain a relic of its era, it’ll be like a horse and buggy in the future, charming and quaint. EV tech certainly has room for improvement, and is improving, but it has a lot of advantages over ICE, and its disadvantages in energy density and charging speed are steadily declining as technology and charging infrastructure improves. Likewise, gas stations will decline and disappear over time, so ICE cars in a couple decades will suffer from range anxiety looking for gas stations while fast and reliable chargers will be everywhere.
12-31-2023, 07:36 PM
#570
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It will be heavier than current 718s, but lighter than most other ICE performance/sports cars from other marques. 3800-4200 lbs is the typical weight for ICE sports cars like the C8, current AMG GT/SL, BMW M4. All estimates point to the 718 EV being lighter than those, and cars in that weight range can be made to handle very well.
Some people get excited by the sounds of rhythmic explosions of fuel, other get irritated, I fall in between and sometimes fall on both sides. Driving a responsive, nimble, and silent car is quite satisfying for me. I like being able to have fun without a loud exhaust drawing attention to me and annoying bystanders. Always being in the power band without having the engine always screaming at high RPM or waiting for turbo spool-up, and never having to wait for a transmission to shift is great. Dual clutch or automatic transmissions in auto mode feel archaic compared to always being in the ideal gear.
Always being fully fueled/charged when you leave home is great, and over time EV charging stations are proliferating for the occasional long drive. If you’re going on a road trip to a distant mountain, just fast charge in the nearest town to the mountain, and while you’ll use up considerable charge on the way up, quite a bit can be regained on the way down. I got around 450 km range in a Taycan driving it the way I normally do (mix of normal and enthusiastic driving), and that was with 2020-era EV technology. Probably the upcoming Taycan will get 500-550 km range with a similar style of driving.
EV tech is definitely advancing, and I do expect the new 718 EV’s tech to be outdated in terms of range and weight, but it will still keep most of the performance it started with; battery degradation on EVs tends to be quite minimal. I’m guessing the new 718 EV will have 400-450 km of range with my typical driving style, which is fine for most driving. I’ll just need to fast charge a couple times on road trips, but that shouldn’t be a problem once Porsches can use Tesla’s reliable charger network. I don’t expect the depreciation to be any worse than most ICE luxury cars.
Tracks will need to get with the times and install fast chargers; some are already doing that. Existing EV tech is fine for doing 20 minute DE sessions and charging in between sessions, chargers are just needed at track.
Botched firmware updates were a Porsche issue, not an EV issue. Tesla, an EV only brand, handles OTA updates like clockwork. Porsche is learning but hopefully they’ll do better in the future. Any future ICE Porsches will need firmware updates just the same; it’s just a useful feature of modern electrical architectures for vehicles to be able to fix and improve firmware of vehicles in the field.
I don’t plan to ever sell my 718 Spyder, it will remain a relic of its era, it’ll be like a horse and buggy in the future, charming and quaint. EV tech certainly has room for improvement, and is improving, but it has a lot of advantages over ICE, and its disadvantages in energy density and charging speed are steadily declining as technology and charging infrastructure improves. Likewise, gas stations will decline and disappear over time, so ICE cars in a couple decades will suffer from range anxiety looking for gas stations while fast and reliable chargers will be everywhere.
Some people get excited by the sounds of rhythmic explosions of fuel, other get irritated, I fall in between and sometimes fall on both sides. Driving a responsive, nimble, and silent car is quite satisfying for me. I like being able to have fun without a loud exhaust drawing attention to me and annoying bystanders. Always being in the power band without having the engine always screaming at high RPM or waiting for turbo spool-up, and never having to wait for a transmission to shift is great. Dual clutch or automatic transmissions in auto mode feel archaic compared to always being in the ideal gear.
Always being fully fueled/charged when you leave home is great, and over time EV charging stations are proliferating for the occasional long drive. If you’re going on a road trip to a distant mountain, just fast charge in the nearest town to the mountain, and while you’ll use up considerable charge on the way up, quite a bit can be regained on the way down. I got around 450 km range in a Taycan driving it the way I normally do (mix of normal and enthusiastic driving), and that was with 2020-era EV technology. Probably the upcoming Taycan will get 500-550 km range with a similar style of driving.
EV tech is definitely advancing, and I do expect the new 718 EV’s tech to be outdated in terms of range and weight, but it will still keep most of the performance it started with; battery degradation on EVs tends to be quite minimal. I’m guessing the new 718 EV will have 400-450 km of range with my typical driving style, which is fine for most driving. I’ll just need to fast charge a couple times on road trips, but that shouldn’t be a problem once Porsches can use Tesla’s reliable charger network. I don’t expect the depreciation to be any worse than most ICE luxury cars.
Tracks will need to get with the times and install fast chargers; some are already doing that. Existing EV tech is fine for doing 20 minute DE sessions and charging in between sessions, chargers are just needed at track.
Botched firmware updates were a Porsche issue, not an EV issue. Tesla, an EV only brand, handles OTA updates like clockwork. Porsche is learning but hopefully they’ll do better in the future. Any future ICE Porsches will need firmware updates just the same; it’s just a useful feature of modern electrical architectures for vehicles to be able to fix and improve firmware of vehicles in the field.
I don’t plan to ever sell my 718 Spyder, it will remain a relic of its era, it’ll be like a horse and buggy in the future, charming and quaint. EV tech certainly has room for improvement, and is improving, but it has a lot of advantages over ICE, and its disadvantages in energy density and charging speed are steadily declining as technology and charging infrastructure improves. Likewise, gas stations will decline and disappear over time, so ICE cars in a couple decades will suffer from range anxiety looking for gas stations while fast and reliable chargers will be everywhere.
next taycan will have 15% more range and for the current taycan , when I drive like my granma on a my Taycan 4S ...it's 300km
Last edited by fxz; 12-31-2023 at 07:55 PM.