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range on the track will be a bit limiting with the current tech, but i could see tracks in the future having charging stations to recharge between sessions. the instant power, regen options, and torque vectoring will be awesome on the track, although will definitely cause more wear on the consumables though.
Current EV tech won't cut it for track use. The issue is thermal management of the battery cells. I say this after having had input on the thermal systems for two EVs that raced Pikes Peak. A fast driver will hit thermal derate in under a lap in a Tesla Model 3 at Buttonwillow. Making a track worthy EV CAN be done, but it takes dedicated motorsports technology as used in Formula-E. Or it will take a change in battery cell technology which significantly raises the temperature limits of the cells. A cell temperature limit of 60C just doesn't give you enough temperature difference to drive heat transfer to cool the cells. I suppose if someone took a current EV and modified the A/C chiller system, going to much larger capacity system, that would help.
My wife and I test-drove the AMG EQE SUV yesterday and all I can say is WOW. It was not what I expected and we were both surprised at everything about it.
Otherwise, we have a charging station at our condo and since the range is in the upper 200s (depending on how one drives it!) we would not have any problems or concerns. But again, as much as I liked it I could not see myself buying an electric sports car since I still love my manual droptop with an engine that sounds fantastic.
I struggle with that as well. It’s hard to imagine an electric sports car that you long to drive on the weekend compared to an NA GT car or cab.
I had been planning on replacing my Tesla model 3 performance with the top of line or second rung EV Cayman, but I’m re thinking that because now I’m getting a Spyder RS as a complement to my 991.2 GT3 for fun NA weekend sports cars.
What would be the purpose of swapping my Tesla M3P for the cayman? A better car for sure, but on the weekends I’m still going to grab the keys to my GT3 or Spyder RS, not an electric car.
Electric makes for a solid daily driver but that is it.
Current EV tech won't cut it for track use. The issue is thermal management of the battery cells. I say this after having had input on the thermal systems for two EVs that raced Pikes Peak. A fast driver will hit thermal derate in under a lap in a Tesla Model 3 at Buttonwillow. Making a track worthy EV CAN be done, but it takes dedicated motorsports technology as used in Formula-E. Or it will take a change in battery cell technology which significantly raises the temperature limits of the cells. A cell temperature limit of 60C just doesn't give you enough temperature difference to drive heat transfer to cool the cells. I suppose if someone took a current EV and modified the A/C chiller system, going to much larger capacity system, that would help.
agree. Some of you may have seen the posts by dave regarding tracking the Taycan. Despite the fact that this feature added a great deal of engineering AND weight to the Taycan, a Taycan still can’t do more than 3 laps without entering limp mode. Better than the Tesla which can only do one lap before issues arise!
EVs aren’t the answer to everything. They make great sense for daily drivers, and local delivery trucks:buses traveling in defined areas.
The don't make sense for track cars, long haul semis, passenger airplanes, long distance shipping, or long road trips, etc.
I struggle with that as well. It’s hard to imagine an electric sports car that you long to drive on the weekend compared to an NA GT car or cab.
I had been planning on replacing my Tesla model 3 performance with the top of line or second rung EV Cayman, but I’m re thinking that because now I’m getting a Spyder RS as a complement to my 991.2 GT3 for fun NA weekend sports cars.
What would be the purpose of swapping my Tesla M3P for the cayman? A better car for sure, but on the weekends I’m still going to grab the keys to my GT3 or Spyder RS, not an electric car.
Electric makes for a solid daily driver but that is it.
Wait. You are getting a Sypder RS for those days when the GT3 just doesn't cut it?
I have a feeling the EV Cayman will be amazing to drive. No sound, but a go-kart with instant acceleration.
The thing I wonder about is if it will be special as a sports car. You have a 991.2 GT3 which is special in its own way. I don't want to assume, but maybe you didn't get the 992 GT3 because you prefer the 991 over the 992. And you can go back another 5+ generations of 911's and there is something special about each of them. Same with the 718/Cayman/Boxster. Will a 2025 first generation EV Cayman be special 10 years from now? Or will it be just as inferior and irrelevant as my 6 year old Tesla? For some reason, EV's just seem a bit generic and disposable and I wonder if this will transfer to sports cars as well.
Wait. You are getting a Sypder RS for those days when the GT3 just doesn't cut it?
I have a feeling the EV Cayman will be amazing to drive. No sound, but a go-kart with instant acceleration.
The thing I wonder about is if it will be special as a sports car. You have a 991.2 GT3 which is special in its own way. I don't want to assume, but maybe you didn't get the 992 GT3 because you prefer the 991 over the 992. And you can go back another 5+ generations of 911's and there is something special about each of them. Same with the 718/Cayman/Boxster. Will a 2025 first generation EV Cayman be special 10 years from now? Or will it be just as inferior and irrelevant as my 6 year old Tesla? For some reason, EV's just seem a bit generic and disposable and I wonder if this will transfer to sports cars as well.
Lol. I love my 991.2 , which was purchased new and did ED including tracking her on the Ring. Definite keeper. I also use her for long weekend trips. The 992 GT3 is better on track but worse on the road. And I’m not a fan of a digital dash in a non electric car.
My first Porsche was a 987.2 Boxster S. I love the go kart handling, but cursed the weak engine. The Spyder RS will be a fun weekend canyon carver, but not a car for the track or a long weekend trip like my GT3.
I completely agree with you about their being something special about every generation of ICE porsche. I think the electric cars will be much more disposable. Look at electric watches and phones. This years hot new model is obsolete and near worthless a few years later.
I agree that EVs will be more generic and disposable. Another reason I may not buy a porsche EV for a while. Hard to spend porsche $$$ on that.
I think the Cayman EV will be an excellent backroad carver at 7/10ths and still probably go 200 miles at that pace. Which is way more than my old 600cc sportbike that I would take in the canyons on the weekends. With EVs, heat generation is a function of electrical current squared. So going at 7/10ths is basically half the heat generation of going all-out. So the car shouldn't have any thermal issues going at an elevated pace, but it will going *****-out. To be fair, unless a gas car is a proper sports car, those overheat quickly too. Take for example when the first 370Z came out or a regular Mustang GT or Camaro. For any of those cars to last more than a few laps on track, they need upgraded coolers. But it is much easier to upgrade a gas car for track use than an EV. I'd say it's actually impossible to modify a current EV for sustained track use without going full motorsports level.
But if you don't need backseats, the Cayman EV could make for a really fun DD and local backroad car.
Last edited by spdracerut; 09-14-2023 at 01:13 AM.
Lol. I love my 991.2 , which was purchased new and did ED including tracking her on the Ring. Definite keeper. I also use her for long weekend trips. The 992 GT3 is better on track but worse on the road. And I’m not a fan of a digital dash in a non electric car.
My first Porsche was a 987.2 Boxster S. I love the go kart handling, but cursed the weak engine. The Spyder RS will be a fun weekend canyon carver, but not a car for the track or a long weekend trip like my GT3.
I completely agree with you about their being something special about every generation of ICE porsche. I think the electric cars will be much more disposable. Look at electric watches and phones. This years hot new model is obsolete and near worthless a few years later.
I agree that EVs will be more generic and disposable. Another reason I may not buy a porsche EV for a while. Hard to spend porsche $$$ on that.
My first Porsche is the BGTS 4.0 that I recently bought. I absolutely love driving it. I can’t imagine the Spyder RS. I’m sure it will be incredible. I also suffer from a bit of 911 envy because I love the way they look. But I prefer driving the 718. Both is ideal!
As far as the EV 718 I’m sure it will be better in almost every way. But it’s a little like a digital Rolex. That’s my biggest hesitation.
Heck, aren't base and S people having heat soak issues on the track because they're missing the third radiator of the GTS and above? I imagine cooling an EV is similar to cooling a phone or computer. Phones are fine under normal use but start playing a game or doing anything intensive and after a few minutes they're quite warm to the touch. With computers, cooling a high powered CPU or GPU under ~75% load is much different than trying to keep one cool at 100%, especially if you start overclocking. Add in space constraints and it becomes difficult without undervolting. The beauty of having a device like an EV designed around a fixed power level makes it simpler, but a co-worker of mine has a Model 3 (non-P) and the radiator fans on that thing will spin up like crazy on hot days after even normal driving. I don't have any personal experience with Taycans but if Porsche can figure out the cooling part (if they haven't already), then they'll be able to push the EV 718 further at full power, which will really help.
Yeah, either way, I Do Not Want a first gen EV cayman/Boxster until it’s been well tested and the technology starts to plateau a bit. Just like I didn’t want a first gen water cooled Porsche. EV tech is moving so fast it’s like catching a falling knife if you jump on board in the next 5-10 years. At least just lease.
But you can’t deny, the number of gas stations peaked 15 years ago and have only been decreasing. There will never be more gas stations from now on, this number is only going down. I have some faint hope about Porsche or VAG developing a viable synthetic fuel that could perhaps burn cleaner but it won’t be cheap lol.
Yeah, either way, I Do Not Want a first gen EV cayman/Boxster until it’s been well tested and the technology starts to plateau a bit. Just like I didn’t want a first gen water cooled Porsche. EV tech is moving so fast it’s like catching a falling knife if you jump on board in the next 5-10 years. At least just lease.
But you can’t deny, the number of gas stations peaked 15 years ago and have only been decreasing. There will never be more gas stations from now on, this number is only going down. I have some faint hope about Porsche or VAG developing a viable synthetic fuel that could perhaps burn cleaner but it won’t be cheap lol.
You don't need to be so worried about EVs. They're fine. It's not like they're gonna catch fire or something.
I think most people underestimate the impact a Cayman and Boxster EV will have on the marketplace. There is nobody else even talking about an EV sports car outside of Tesla (also Mazda who announced their next Miata will be electric, which has potential).
I was hoping they would sacrifice range for weight. 80kwh is Huge for a car that size, could get away with 60 maybe? My awd Tesla sedan has less than 80kwh and gets the range needed, Porsche should be able to do less weight than a Model 3 rwd at least!
I think most people underestimate the impact a Cayman and Boxster EV will have on the marketplace. There is nobody else even talking about an EV sports car outside of Tesla (also Mazda who announced their next Miata will be electric, which has potential).
I was hoping they would sacrifice range for weight. 80kwh is Huge for a car that size, could get away with 60 maybe? My awd Tesla sedan has less than 80kwh and gets the range needed, Porsche should be able to do less weight than a Model 3 rwd at least!
I'm guessing Porsche will understand that...the average miles driven per day in US is about 36 miles a day, we don't need a 300 mile range Cayman. Keep it light as possible and a 240 mile range is plenty....
These aren't going to be road trip cars. With gas almost $6 a gallon these days, it is quite refreshing to have my M3P as a daily and no oil changes and brake jobs is another bonus.
09-11-2023, 11:22 PM
