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We are talking about Sports Car sales in this thread, as it started with information on the BEV 718 that is due in 2025, and whether an BEV 718 will sell as well as its ICE forerunner.
My point is what I originally stated in post #250, and concluded with .... "Obviously BEV are coming, and the SUV's or Sedan variants will be the first to be embraced. The BEV Sports Car will be the last, if ever truly desired like their ICE forerunners."
I used the lack of Taycan sales to illustrate that BEV Sports cars are not selling like ICE sports cars. To which you incorrectly stated that the Taycan is selling as well as the 911/718 and any sales drop was do to Supply Chain issues. Thus I just stated the hard data that with-in 500 miles of my Zip Code there are over 247 New Taycans on dealer lots, and only 12 - 911's, plus the ICE 911 sells about 2 to 1 over the Taycan. So it's not an allocation issue with Porsche making few 911's or 718 to support demand, and over producing the Taycan.
Obviously your statement that Taycan sales are down (-22.8%), "Wasn't for lack of interest", is not correct. Plenty of Taycan inventory out there and not many buyers........ That's my point.
I used the lack of Taycan sales to illustrate that BEV Sports cars are not selling like ICE sports cars. To which you incorrectly stated that the Taycan is selling as well as the 911/718 and any sales drop was do to Supply Chain issues. Thus I just stated the hard data that with-in 500 miles of my Zip Code there are over 247 New Taycans on dealer lots, and only 12 - 911's, plus the ICE 911 sells about 2 to 1 over the Taycan. So it's not an allocation issue with Porsche making few 911's or 718 to support demand, and over producing the Taycan.
Obviously your statement that Taycan sales are down (-22.8%), "Wasn't for lack of interest", is not correct. Plenty of Taycan inventory out there and not many buyers........ That's my point.
Dude,
I was only responding to your comment on lack of interest of Taycans.
Here are the numbers from last year, that I “incorrectly” stated.
PAG is a publicly traded company so I put more in their financial reporting than your EV bias on why the inventory was constrained. We saw all manufacturers limited by supply chain, an all electric car was hit hard.
You can google 1st qtr sales and Taycan was 2:1 on deliveries over 718s.
I have a 718, I like it. These are just numbers and PAG’s priorities….no need to get upset over the incoming EV tide.
OBTW, most of those Taycans are customer cars your reporting as available.
That newsroom.porsche.com article doesn't have a lot of data, but here are some numbers of FY 2022 deliveries per model compared to US inventory numbers per model.
There are a few things to be aware of:
1. This is comparing WW vs US numbers, so the shape of the distribution might be different
2. The current inventory may not be representative of the entire year deliveries due to seasonality, etc.
But in general it's interesting to see that:
1. There is a fairly large surplus of new 2023 Macans in the US market
2. There is a 9x shortage of 911s: they represented 13.04% of WW deliveries in 2022, yet the US inventory of 911s is coming up to only 1.45%
3. There is some surplus of Taycans, but not as much as Macans
4. There is a 7x shortage of 718s: they represented 5.87% of WW deliveries in 2022, yet the US inventory of 718s is coming up to only 0.84%
Last edited by dalexeenko; 05-04-2023 at 08:21 PM.
The article states "Engineering Speculation" for some future time. If that ever happens, EV's might have a chance in a non-urban + non-single family residence setting. As for the current state of reality, battery technology is limiting the EV acceptance.
The article states "Engineering Speculation" for some future time. If that ever happens, EV's might have a chance in a non-urban + non-single family residence setting. As for the current state of reality, battery technology is limiting the EV acceptance.
true, it would be an enormous game changer, especially for the first company to even hit the 600 mile range, but it is pretty safe to say that EV acceptance is already well under way with the Model Y being the best selling car(non truck) in the US in 2023 and the Model 3 not far behind that...Tesla is set to outsell BMW and Mercedes combined this year which is insane for a company barely a decade old and has never even advertised.
Here's a not so funny story about a guy who tried to tow his Porsche to the track with his Model X Tesla. The article had "share" icon attached so I don't think I'm breaking any copyright laws.
The timing of Porche's EV Cayman release will coincide with what I predict will be a truly horrendous experience for anyone needing to use a good super charger during peak times. It's already become very difficult many locations. This may not deter enthusiasts wanting another EV built to Porsche's very high standards (Taycan is fantastic) but the initial offerings will be base Cayman's more suited as DDs than EV canyon runners. If Porsche flips this around and offers the high end "GT/GTS" first then they would surely capture more excitement and press about the drive experience and less complaints about charging a DD.
Unless of course they want to take their 718 EV to the track… SOL.
I owned a Taycan for 6 months, couldn’t wait to sell it. Owning it during that time period was like catching a falling knife (values were tanking along with demand). And multiple dealers have stated the Taycan demand had fallen off a cliff. Yes I received the tax credit, but it didn’t offset my full loss on the car. All of the Porsche engineering in the world couldn’t remove the overweight and boring dynamics. And the charging experience was horrendous.
718 EV may look successful at launch with early adopters and tech geeks looking for something fresh. But the true enthusiasts won’t take to it.
I know Porsche needs to be forward thinking, but taking arguably the most heavily tracked mid-engine platform in the market and telling future customers “yeah, you won’t be tracking our smallest most affordable sports car anymore” seems a bit foolish.
Oh and “we’ll take away your manuals too while we’re at it”
My biggest concern of EV’s is the inevitable shift to a rental model. These are bound to be disposable vehicles long term with battery degradation and lack of battery pack replacements in 8+ years with the hundreds of different platforms / cells / startup EV companies going under / etc.
Hang onto those manual gas engined cars for dear life.
I might add that states like California can barely provide power to the people (so to speak) right now. rolling black outs are common. Other states are increasingly doing the same thing. All data shows that our national power grid can only provide something like single digit % power for EVs -- meaning, EVs will be impractical for many years, if not forever.
That said, I have a 718 Cayman S. Would love to try the EV version and see how it does. My guess is it will be a killer performer.
Unless of course they want to take their 718 EV to the track… SOL.
I owned a Taycan for 6 months, couldn’t wait to sell it. Owning it during that time period was like catching a falling knife (values were tanking along with demand). And multiple dealers have stated the Taycan demand had fallen off a cliff. Yes I received the tax credit, but it didn’t offset my full loss on the car. All of the Porsche engineering in the world couldn’t remove the overweight and boring dynamics. And the charging experience was horrendous.
718 EV may look successful at launch with early adopters and tech geeks looking for something fresh. But the true enthusiasts won’t take to it.
I know Porsche needs to be forward thinking, but taking arguably the most heavily tracked mid-engine platform in the market and telling future customers “yeah, you won’t be tracking our smallest most affordable sports car anymore” seems a bit foolish.
Oh and “we’ll take away your manuals too while we’re at it”
My biggest concern of EV’s is the inevitable shift to a rental model. These are bound to be disposable vehicles long term with battery degradation and lack of battery pack replacements in 8+ years with the hundreds of different platforms / cells / startup EV companies going under / etc.
Hang onto those manual gas engined cars for dear life.
I think the reason the Taycan sales have plummeted is probably becuse of the power and performance to money ratio...a $90K base and $140K GTS would get stomped by a $50K M3P(model 3 performance) and you'd have to buy a Turbo at $160K to barely beat it, and a $200K Turbo S would still get walked easily by a MSP(model S Plaid) at half the cost ...not to mention the much better range and charging network that Tesla offers.
You're spending a **** ton of money on a badge at that point...
Like I have said, I think(hoping) Porsche will make an amazing E-718 but they have to price it right and better be prepared to make a sub 3.5 sec 0-60 car otherwise it probably won't sell very well for many of the reasons stated above...I know the name "Tesla" triggers some on here lol, but it is reality , they make a very fast and capable car at very hard to beat prices....and the SC network is unparalleled
and before we jump on the "it's only good for going fast in a straight line" wagon, look up lap times on these cars...M3P's are faster around most of the tracks in the US than many modern day Porsches....and an Unplugged MSP just set the lap record at Willow Springs, beating the old record which was set in a 991 GT2 RS
EV's aren't for everybody, I get it, but they are incredible cars that make fantastic daily drivers and if you have the means to have both an EV and a good old fashioned ICE manual you can have the best of both worlds
and BTW, the Jeep Magneto 2.0 concept (Electric Wrangler) has a manual transmission (don't ask me how)....so there is hope that they will still be around
I might add that states like California can barely provide power to the people (so to speak) right now. rolling black outs are common. Other states are increasingly doing the same thing. All data shows that our national power grid can only provide something like single digit % power for EVs -- meaning, EVs will be impractical for many years, if not forever.
That said, I have a 718 Cayman S. Would love to try the EV version and see how it does. My guess is it will be a killer performer.
Maybe it is different in NorCal, but I'm born and raised SoCal and honestly have never had to deal with a rolling blackout and I'm half a century old
With more and more people feeding the grid with solar(I'm one of them) these days, I think the worries about the grid are over blown.... EV's are everywhere in California and the numbers are growing every day
EV's arent impractical for many, especially in California, and the numbers don't lie....
05-03-2023, 08:14 PM
