Zhao

I think your weight numbers are in the ballpark. I've been consistent with my guess of no lighter than 3600lbs is going to be possible. I could definitely see closer to 4000 on the top trims and bet it'll top out still under 4000lbs but who knows.

Range needs to be better than 250 miles. I suspect if they do 3 specs for power/range, the middle model will have the best range. The top end will be all performance and range will suffer because of that. The base will be the el cheapo pleb version so should be gimped on range so people upgrade to the 2nd trim level. But 250 miles for range just isn't going to do it. THat's 400km, and that translates into more like 300 useable km, or <200km spirited driving. <40km track but this will not be a good track car even if it had tons of range. I think the pleb version will need to be 450-500km for a couple reasons. It's a sports car, so if you're going to do trips, it needs to be able to hit the charging station distances with room to spare because you're not likely to charge it to 100% every stop, nor are you going to want to limp it into a charging station with prius level power. I suspect the mid range will be 600km or so, and the top end performance spec will be 500-600km. Even for spirited driving, people are going to want to drive it only above 50-60% because it's performance will start falling off a cliff most likely around that level.

I'm interseted to know what kind of foot print with tires it's giong to have. I wonder if it's going to run a much larger tire upfront to handle the weight in the corners. It's going to have a great roll center so it will feel good on the street but it's going to murder tires and brakes at the limit unless they do something drastic there I bet. I also wonder if it will be fully drive by wire deadening the feel of the car even moreso.


Anyway, despite how much I do not like EV sports cars I think I'm going to jump into a tesla for a DD. I still don't like the idea of EVs lighting up on fire randomly, but they've slashed the prices enough that they now make sense to me.

Zhao

If they did that, that would solve one of the 3 big problems with a EV sports car.

Then they just need to crack how it handles from being a heavy pig. I dont care that it feels good on the limits, but feels and actually good are 2 different things. Take a tesla 3 performance, or S plaid. Even the base model 3 feels great at like 70-80% in the corners, the rotation is next to perfect (it reminds me of a bmw at the peak of BMW building driver cars where even a base model 3 series sedan felt good) and that roll center is basically cheat mode for feel, but it's not actually fast in the corners. Then you get into Plaid levels and all of a sudden you find out the brakes can't handle the car. It is very rare for a car to actually need as big of brakes as it comes with and somehow a plaid actually doesn't have good enough brakes for the track from my experience. Way too much heat generation and I am not sure if it's just from the weight, or a combination of the weight and possibly poor airflow from rims or inadequate ducting from not being experienced enough with a sports car, but it has to be mostly do to the weight eitehr way. I know a plaid that tracked it as his main track car last year gave up trying to solve the braking issues and just bought a 987 boxster S for a track car.

Then they just also need to crack minor faults EV's have over ICE. I still have no faith a EV isn't going to go chernobyl in my garage while I'm sleeping or on a trip. I have no faith the car is going to work properly in a decade, which is a massive problem for Porsche ownership since Porsche cars are common to still be on the road 50 years later. Where do you charge a Porsche EV outside of a big city? I dunno, you can charge it at a telsa station but it's throttled down for charging is my understanding and even the tesla network isn't great where I am... i'd classify it as adequate at best.

Traum

I don't expect any major handling issues as a result of the weight. Granted, everything else being equal, more weight will make the car handle worse, but the Porsche engineers will give the car as good a handling as their expertise would allow. All we need to look at are the Macans, Cayennes, Panamera, Taycan -- they are not exactly light, but they handle very well for their weight class. In some cases, they handle exceptionally well for their weight class.

One question I'd love to know the answer to is -- which charging plug / standard is Porsche gonna adopt, esp for its N.American-bound cars? AFAIK, Volkswagen is "evaluating" whether they'll adopt NACS. As the Tesla charging network is still the most comprehensive and by far the most reliable charging network available at this point, I would obviously hope VW -- and Porsche, by extension -- would jump on the NACS bandwagon as well.

Zhao

^ no evidence of Porsche following tesla, but I do believe ford, volvo, kia? and merc, and a couple others have gone on the record and committed to switching their future EV's to adopting tesla's plug so I'm betting that ends up as the standard.

Kheires

agree and hope the adopt NACS. It will make road tripping much easier with the car. The rivian network is great reliability and charge rate when I hit the road, but just not enough of them.

Kheires

agree with you as a DD. as much as i love driving the 718 on the road and track, the rivian is a much better DD for ease of use, charge at home at night, less maintenance, and obviously for other activities like hauling my mountain bikes, kayaks/paddle boards, and PWC.

range anxiety is overrated for normal road use cases, unless your go on road trips more than a few times a year. with current tech, charging rates are highest in the less than ~70% SoC range. if your trip is less than 1.7-1.8x your range, the overall trip will be basically the same compared to ICE (if ICE stops once as well). if you have to stop 2x or more, then the fastest way to do it is to stop and charge 10-20% --> ~70% each time to get fastest rates.

range on the track will be a bit limiting with the current tech, but i could see tracks in the future having charging stations to recharge between sessions. the instant power, regen options, and torque vectoring will be awesome on the track, although will definitely cause more wear on the consumables though.

the whole catching on fire is insanely overhyped due to the news. EVs have the lowest risk of catching fire, followed by ICE, with hybrids having the highest. "Hybrid-powered cars were involved in about 3,475 fires per every 100,000 sold. Gasoline-powered cars, about 1,530. Electric vehicles (EVs) saw just 25 fires per 100,000 sold." 61x less than ICE
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/study-e...est-car-fires/

SoCal-NSX

exactly....most of the false narratives about all the bad things about EV's are studies and stories that are bought and paid for by you guessed it, big oil.....shocker

sadly, it works on many.....those who know, know.......those who don't, will eventually

gas is pushing $6 a gallon here in Cali...... gas prices going up while EV prices are coming down, it is just a matter of time....won't even need a mandate by 2035

SoCal-NSX

Base- 325 hp 350 tq - 290 mile range* 0-60 in 4.1 $70-80K

S- 390 hp 410 tq -270 mile range* 0-60 in 3.4 $80-90K

R- 450 hp 480 tq - 250 miles range* 0-60 in 2.5 $120-160K

* range could increase with better technology, but as of today this is about what it would be

981KMAN

The issue is not about the risk of catching on fire. The issue is once the EV is on fire, it is nearly impossible to stop the fire (Lithium oxidation process), plus the fire is extremely hot (3600F). This is why many Race Tracks have banned EV cars from their facilities, as they do not have a way to put the Lithium fire out safely. Also probably why the Felicity Ace is at the bottom of the ocean.......

So yes, the news may "over-hype" the risk of EV fire in your estimation, yet the impact on safety is very real.......

Thus a Porsche 718 EV will not be in my garage until we have very different battery technology.

maschinetheist

Yes, all the tracks in my neck of the woods ban EVs since they can't put the fires out

Drifting

seems reasonable. I think my range estimates are skewed due to Tesla ownership, as Porsche range estimates are “real” or slightly conservative if anything.

Zhao

That was my biggest hold back for getting a EV. It's the randomness of it, the severity of it, and it being able to happen while not in use. ICE cars light on fire more, but they're always while you're driving it and you have plenty of time to pull over and get out. A EV going nuclear in the garage at 3am is nightmare fuel, even if it is rare. Took lots of stats and risk assessment for me to be ok with one of those things in my garage.

I also do not think there is any big oil conspiracy against EV's. I think pretty much every concern is routed in logic and is something that needs to solved. I also do not see how some of the EV issues can be solved and I never see mass adoption of them. If there is any conspiracy it'll be in eliminating cars for poor people since EV's absolutely do not work for poor people, or likely even lower middle class people. I do not think they're good for the environment long term either as they are extremely expensive to recycle and there are only 2 locations currently that can to my knowledge.

But they work for me right now as some upper middle class guy. I'll enjoy the government rebate and big discounts, the free charging station locations, and my ultra cheap untaxed electricity at home to operate this thing. I have a warm garage, multiple cars so don't need to worry about range, and a charging station a few blocks away worst case scenario. I'll also dump it before it's off warranty.

Bob Z.

My wife and I test-drove the AMG EQE SUV yesterday and all I can say is WOW. It was not what I expected and we were both surprised at everything about it. Neither of us had driven an electric before and while I would not consider one for a sports car our next SUV is going to be one of these, or the EQG I have a deposit on...I may change it to the one we test-drove depending on how we like the G. The acceleration was like taking off is a jet plane and it was like a vault inside where we could not hear much inside at all, which was fine while in Comfort mode since it allowed us to hear the Burmester without any interference. The rear wheel steering was spot on albeit I had that on my Targa GTS so I knew what to expect. There was not one negative thing I could say about it other than the colors (Black with Black/Brown interior) but if we got one we would order it.

Otherwise, we have a charging station at our condo and since the range is in the upper 200s (depending on how one drives it!) we would not have any problems or concerns. But again, as much as I liked it I could not see myself buying an electric sports car since I still love my manual droptop with a engine that sounds fantastic.

spdracerut

VAG has the base Taycan and Audi Q4 e-tron with ~80kWh battery packs and 300-320hp to pull parts from. Logical that the base Cayman will get the ~300hp motor out of the Q4, matching the hp of the current base Cayman, with the 80kWh pack which should put it around 280miles real world range. The Q4 e-tron also starts at $50k, so the pricing works and reasonable for a base EV Cayman to come in at the same pricing as the current gas. I figure around 3700lbs. Or Porsche may just give the Cayman the 321hp of the base Taycan in order to offset the higher weight compared to the gas Cayman. GTS would get the 402hp of the single motor Taycan with the performance boost. Cayman S can be slotted into the middle power wise, call it 360hp.

spdracerut

Agree. My family has had EVs in the garage since the first Nissan Leaf came out. In regards to the severity vs likely-hood of an EV fire, I liken it flying in airplanes. Flying is statistically safer than driving, but the severity of a crash is pretty much death. Yet, I don't hear of too many people avoiding flying because of a fear of crashing.

New gas cars are still a risk too due to defects.
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/07/11...-park-outside/
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...k-a1164933239/