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Hmmm, Old news for PCA Carolinas Region HPDE events. Taycans have been prohibited since "day one" due to fire safety reason. Most Tracks do not have the fire suppression equipment for Lithium-Ion Battery fires.....
They might in the future, yet currently do not, so no EV's allowed.
The following Rules from Carolina Motorsports Park (CMP)......
Yeah this is new news for me, and Summit is my "home track". I missed the last autocross but saw pics; one of them was a "all generations of Porsche: past, present, future" or something like that with a Taycan front and center so they just let them on track as recently as two weeks ago. (edit- actually the only time I've ever driven a Taycan ironically was at Summit Point...)
Originally Posted by SoCal-NSX
is this a PCA thing? cuz there is nothing out there on google searches about that track banning EV's?
It's a Summit Point thing but hasn't made its way to "public consumption". Looks like PCA was notified this afternoon and put it out on Facebook as they have an event Saturday. As explained, the track ownership informed them of this policy. As I mentioned earlier, definitely the first I'd heard of it- although I did the same and all Google told me was about a Texas drag strip that banned EVs in 2019 so yeah, this still seems new.
Originally Posted by Zhao
Seems odd. I wonder what issues they're talking about to be 'effective immediately', because my local road racing club's volunteer safety team do F1 and formula E, so are top caliber, they have electric car training thx to formula E, and have never had any qualms about EVs on track at local events.
Gotta be a local isolated incident and these are temp measures while they change something. Or insurance got involved and said no.
Seems like if they do formula E there would be whatever resources required to handle electric vehicles; that apparently is not universal. I would not be surprised whatsoever if this is an insurance thing, but as I mentioned I don't have those details.
All that matters to me is that I have ALWAYS been skeptical of driving EVs on a race track, but when I actually saw the charging stations at Summit Point I started thinking "hey, this might work someday". But this seems like yet another obstacle that wasn't completely thought out.
I know I haven't tried to hide the fact that I'm drinking from the haterade firehose on EVs, but this is seriously a huge red flag for enthusiasts. If it can happen at Summit Point, theoretically it can happen anywhere (apparently unless they host Formula E events?).
Last edited by manifold danger; 03-30-2023 at 09:32 PM.
Ya would be interested to know the reasoning. I know my main track has a front end loader with massive forks on it, so in theory the plan could be to use that and move the EV turning itself into chernobyl wherever it needs to go to be safe. I know I instructed the first Telsa at one track and the safety team inspected it and were like ya no problem letting it run here.
I've always been at best 2nd tier support or club board member so never made the big final decisions for events, but I know from being involved with the guys who do have to talk to insurance there is a lot of back and forth and explaining your plan and how it's safe. You put the wrong guy on that meeting with insurance and there will be problems as I know we've had red lights that turned to green lights for various things just from having the right guy do the explaining.
The comments section on the post on Facebook have revealed a couple more insights- to your point, having to let an EV fire "turn itself into chernobyl". Others have mentioned the extra weight in an impact, or that electric motors lock the wheels and can't be towed, etc. etc.
It's a paradigm shift for the automotive industry, it's actually only natural there are many more things to consider for racing that may not be obviously apparent. Looks like some race tracks don't want to assume the risk at the moment.
There are a few articles mentioning the GT4 ePerformance (like this one: https://motorsports.porsche.com/international/en/category/cars/gt4eperformance). But is it actually going to be available as part of 718 EV line up for MY 25?
"Sprint races on a circuit, hill climbs on mountain roads, drift races in the snow: the Porsche GT4 e-Performance prototype is built to be used in different events. After all, a future electric Porsche customer racing car should be used as much as possible. The prototype will never be for sale, but it is already gathering valuable data and insights."
Target weight 3650 lbs and $15k price increase. Even if electricity is free, most owners will never break even, because very few sports cars are daily drivers. Obviously, it's the end of the manual transmission too. Looks pretty good, and I honestly think looks, 0-60 times, and bhp are the only things that matter to most buyers (oh and cell phone interface...) so it will be interesting to see how they sell. They won't sell one to me, but it will be interesting...
Last edited by Denny Swift; 04-25-2023 at 06:03 PM.
"Most" buyers don't buy sports cars so that statement isn't really worth anything. Not-a-one miata owner cares about bhp or 0-60 times, and yet that car has sold well for 30+ years.
Boxster owners are grown up Miata owners with money IMO. Same brain, bigger pockets, more grey hair. Almost no ones buying a Boxster to go drag racing.
I think there is very little chance the first EV boxster isn't going to be a terrible sports car. It'll probably sell in record numbers, but will go down in history as hot garbage.
lmao...the writer should do some simple research to save himself some embarassment ....meanwhile Tesla Model Y is the best selling car (non truck) in the US in 2023 and the Model 3 is the 6th best selling car currently, right behind the Camry.....and they don't even advertise, never have and Tesla is set to outsell BMW and Mercedes combined in 2023.
I recently joined the EV revolution and my only regret is not doing it sooner....I honestly have lost some interest in my 718 because it just feels so slow to me compared to my M3P now and not going to the gas station much at all these days is a nice bonus. I know most of you on here hate hearing it, but once you get a taste of the instant response and insane speed in such a short distance, it's hard to go back to ICE vehicle and the much slower responsiveness of them. For about $50K you can get a new M3P that will smash 95% of the cars on the road from light to light, handles like an M3 and you will never spend another dollar on gas... if you have home charging, it is literally pennies on the dollar
Porsche is going to have a hard time not making the new E-Cayman a 911 killer.....cuz they easily could if they wanted to with the speed, responsiveness and low CG that you can get with EV's
I recently joined the EV revolution and my only regret is not doing it sooner....I honestly have lost some interest in my 718 because it just feels so slow to me compared to my M3P now and not going to the gas station much at all these days is a nice bonus. I know most of you on here hate hearing it, but once you get a taste of the instant response and insane speed in such a short distance, it's hard to go back to ICE vehicle and the much slower responsiveness of them. For about $50K you can get a new M3P that will smash 95% of the cars on the road from light to light, handles like an M3 and you will never spend another dollar on gas... if you have home charging, it is literally pennies on the dollar
Porsche is going to have a hard time not making the new E-Cayman a 911 killer.....cuz they easily could if they wanted to with the speed, responsiveness and low CG that you can get with EV's
I think if you're primary interest is smashing most other vehicles from light to light, you will love EV. As you do.
I've driven various Taycans and last month spent 15 days in a Model Y & 3. In SoCal. Yes the acceleration is fun, but that gets old. The cars overall are plain, uninspiring and lack character - speaking of Tesla. I did like the screen interface, effortlessness for crunching mundane highway miles, thought the quality was lacking (the frunk hood on the Model Y is so flimsy). Didn't do anything to test the handling other than take the 3 onto Angeles Crest, nothing special. Had to make use of the supercharger network, which is great. Never got the advertised 250 kW charging, despite various volume levels, battery charge state etc. Also hated having to incorporate sitting at a charger for 20-40 minutes into my day. Home charging is the way for sure.
I can see an EV for around town, errand running, perhaps even commute to work if it's a slog in traffic the whole way.
The 718 EV looks neat and being a Porsche will have chassis performance to match the motor along with nice fit & finish. But doubt it'll evoke the same feelings and experience of ICE sports cars. It's not all about smashing other cars at lights (actually rarely is for me anyway).
I think if you're primary interest is smashing most other vehicles from light to light, you will love EV. As you do.
I've driven various Taycans and last month spent 15 days in a Model Y & 3. In SoCal. Yes the acceleration is fun, but that gets old. The cars overall are plain, uninspiring and lack character - speaking of Tesla. I did like the screen interface, effortlessness for crunching mundane highway miles, thought the quality was lacking (the frunk hood on the Model Y is so flimsy). Didn't do anything to test the handling other than take the 3 onto Angeles Crest, nothing special. Had to make use of the supercharger network, which is great. Never got the advertised 250 kW charging, despite various volume levels, battery charge state etc. Also hated having to incorporate sitting at a charger for 20-40 minutes into my day. Home charging is the way for sure.
I can see an EV for around town, errand running, perhaps even commute to work if it's a slog in traffic the whole way.
The 718 EV looks neat and being a Porsche will have chassis performance to match the motor along with nice fit & finish. But doubt it'll evoke the same feelings and experience of ICE sports cars. It's not all about smashing other cars at lights (actually rarely is for me anyway).
were they the Performance versions or the base models?
There is a HUGE difference in performance and charge rate are only 170kw for the base model as opposed to 250kw for the dual motor versions, which is probably why you had the slow charging
I don't think most people want to race Mustangs and Chargers light to light, but it sure is fun embarrassing them when they test you from time to time....point is, is that they can outperform most cars on the road in day to day driving...which most people are doing.
It is going to be very interesting where Porsche places this car....gonna be hard not to make it at least as fast as a Model 3 Performance to compete with that and it's 3.1 sec 0-60 and it's $53,900 price(not including its $7500 tax credit) but at the same time try not to murder the base 911
I thought I'd never enjoy an EV myself, but I admit that I was wrong...these things are amazing and I will always have one in the fleet ....hopefully the new E-Cayman will be one of them
They're not for everybody, but luckily you will still have plenty of ICE vehicles to chose from if you need that engine noise for probably the rest of most of our lives...They arent magically going to disappear in 2035 like some try to make it out to be the case
were they the Performance versions or the base models?
There is a HUGE difference in performance and charge rate are only 170kw for the base model as opposed to 250kw for the dual motor versions, which is probably why you had the slow charging
I don't think most people want to race Mustangs and Chargers light to light, but it sure is fun embarrassing them when they test you from time to time....point is, is that they can outperform most cars on the road in day to day driving...which most people are doing.
It is going to be very interesting where Porsche places this car....gonna be hard not to make it at least as fast as a Model 3 Performance to compete with that and it's 3.1 sec 0-60 and it's $53,900 price(not including its $7500 tax credit) but at the same time try not to murder the base 911
I thought I'd never enjoy an EV myself, but I admit that I was wrong...these things are amazing and I will always have one in the fleet ....hopefully the new E-Cayman will be one of them
They're not for everybody, but luckily you will still have plenty of ICE vehicles to chose from if you need that engine noise for probably the rest of most of our lives...They arent magically going to disappear in 2035 like some try to make it out to be the case
No base Hertz rentals. I can see your point, I'm sure the upgraded Performance versions are better than rentals. Chassis, tires, charging.
I would agree they have a place and application, for now. Perhaps someday there will be a way to make them more engaging, if people are interested in such things still.
I'd bet Porsche won't be out to compete solely on performance specs. Porsche is about the package including the brand. It'll be more about where it places in their own line up.
I owned a Model Y for two years and one thing that did not get old was the power and instant mega torque and rush of effortless power. I agree stop light racing isn't my thing either, but mega torque and seamless silly power is. The electric motor just feels so urgent, quiet, linear and "on" that going from that to ICE opened my eyes to ICE weaknesses. Most ICE cars feel slow now, well normal ones that is, not gt4's gt3's and special ICE cars.
Then, on the other side of the equation, there is no emotion outside of the very relevant benefits of electric power noted above.
There are a few non starters for me with EV's, commercial and heavy duty applications, and sports cars. The former its just not going to happen with towing, 5000lb trucks, landscaping, uhaul trucks, tractor trailers etc. The battery will get crushed until battery technology improves 5 fold. On the latter, sports cars invoke emotion and sound, I predict a hard road ahead for EVs. A smooth, constant, quiet, vanilla surge of power is just dull. Fun in the right application, but dull and lifeless.
03-30-2023, 09:29 PM
