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It's funny, long lines to buy 718s yet their sales are near half of the Taycan, which had a less than stellar year sales wise, and nearly matched 911 numbers. I think this 718 EV could create new buyers for Porsche, and if they continue offering combustion versions for current enthusiasts it will be a win-win.
I’d agree ……if porsche continues to sell the ICE 718 simultaneously for the rest of the decade.
I’m sure most of you are aware that due to regulations, porsche doesn’t plan on selling ICE 718 in Europe after June 2024. They will continue to sell ICE 718 for 1-2 years in NA, China, and elsewhere.
personally, I don’t this is enough time. There will be significant unmet demand for ICE 718 for the next decade and porsche will only be selling EV 718 for most of those years.
I don’t this is enough time. There will be significant unmet demand for ICE 718 for the next decade and porsche will only be selling EV 718 for most of those years.
Unmet demand? If you wanted one you easily got one…if you put in a modicum of effort.
It’s the least selling platform in the Porsche Portfolio.
By 2030 Porsche says 80% will be EV, so everything is heading toward EV.
Good news is plenty of existing ICE p-cars to satisfy the itch.
A 718 BEV - no matter how good it is - won't appeal to the obdurate ICE/manual-gearbox/NA crowd on Rennlist. No matter. VW/Porsche doubtless has a pretty clear idea what subset of the existing Cayman/Boxster user base might take the leap to an electric 2-seater under what conditions, how the VW/AUDI variants will differ and where they'll be positioned, where conquests from other brands (and other models in the Porsche stable) might come from, and how many they need to sell to continue development. Is there risk? Sure, but Porsche wouldn't be where it is today if they'd stopped innovating and experimenting when air-cooled 911s were the brand's only offering. I like a NA, 6- or 7-speed flat-six as much as the next enthusiast - and have had a bunch of 'em - but I'll wait to see what Porsche delivers with the 718 and THEN determine if it maps to one of my driving & ownership use cases. The marque is necessarily evolving in response to political, social and economic realities, and I'm eagerly anticipating getting some seat time in - and perhaps owing - one or more of the next generation of its performance offerings.
Unmet demand? If you wanted one you easily got one…if you put in a modicum of effort.
It’s the least selling platform in the Porsche Portfolio.
By 2030 Porsche says 80% will be EV, so everything is heading toward EV.
Good news is plenty of existing ICE p-cars to satisfy the itch.
unmet demand……for the next decade, is what I typed.
I’m not referring to those who already Have a 718, I’m referring to those that would want to purchase a new one they can spec themselves over the next decade.
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
A 718 BEV - no matter how good it is - won't appeal to the obdurate ICE/manual-gearbox/NA crowd on Rennlist. No matter. VW/Porsche doubtless has a pretty clear idea what subset of the existing Cayman/Boxster user base might take the leap to an electric 2-seater under what conditions, how the VW/AUDI variants will differ and where they'll be positioned, where conquests from other brands (and other models in the Porsche stable) might come from, and how many they need to sell to continue development. Is there risk? Sure, but Porsche wouldn't be where it is today if they'd stopped innovating and experimenting when air-cooled 911s were the brand's only offering. I like a NA, 6- or 7-speed flat-six as much as the next enthusiast - and have had a bunch of 'em - but I'll wait to see what Porsche delivers with the 718 and THEN determine if it maps to one of my driving & ownership use cases. The marque is necessarily evolving in response to political, social and economic realities, and I'm eagerly anticipating getting some seat time - and perhaps owing - one or more of the next generation of its performance offerings.
apparently they care more for Rennlist China crowd...
umet demand……for the next decade, is what I typed.
I’m not referring to those who already Have a 718, I’m referring to those that would want to purchase a new one they can spec themselves over the next decade.
Oh ok, pretty sure the world doesn’t work like that…
Oh ok, pretty sure the world doesn’t work like that…
Matter of opinion of course.
But a Boxster/cayman is often the entry car into the Porsche world for a driving enthusiast. It was for me. I ordered a new 987.2 Boxster S as my first sports car once I started making significant money post university. Later, I purchased many 911 variants.
So I’m saying from 2025 onward there will be plenty of guys who just got a promotion, or reached a milestone in their careers, who will not enter the porsche world by custom ordering a new ICE Cayman/Boxster. Buying someone else’s used car is not the same.
I think that outside of China, that far fewer guys will buy a new 718, once the lineup goes completely electric. Just not the same degree of emotional connection, or specialness to motivate someone to pay the Porsche price for a two seater EV.
I think that outside of China, that far fewer guys will buy a new 718, once the lineup goes completely electric. Just not the same degree of emotional connection, or specialness.
I've spent a lot of time in China and most 718's are driven by women. They men go for bigger/longer cars (sign of status). And the China market has many domestic EV brands now, so I'm not sure how the 718 EV will do there either.
Performance is not a big deal for cars in China either, it seems there are speed cameras every 100 feet there so no one goes above the speed limit - this can be extremely frustrating when you have a driver taking you somewhere 50+ miles away and they are doing 40mph the whole time (while simultaneously staring at their wechat on their phone). Another funny anecdote is that clean cars in China are a rarity, they almost never wash their cars.
A 718 BEV - no matter how good it is - won't appeal to the obdurate ICE/manual-gearbox/NA crowd on Rennlist. No matter. VW/Porsche doubtless has a pretty clear idea what subset of the existing Cayman/Boxster user base might take the leap to an electric 2-seater under what conditions, how the VW/AUDI variants will differ and where they'll be positioned, where conquests from other brands (and other models in the Porsche stable) might come from, and how many they need to sell to continue development. Is there risk? Sure, but Porsche wouldn't be where it is today if they'd stopped innovating and experimenting when air-cooled 911s were the brand's only offering. I like a NA, 6- or 7-speed flat-six as much as the next enthusiast - and have had a bunch of 'em - but I'll wait to see what Porsche delivers with the 718 and THEN determine if it maps to one of my driving & ownership use cases. The marque is necessarily evolving in response to political, social and economic realities, and I'm eagerly anticipating getting some seat time - and perhaps owing - one or more of the next generation of its performance offerings.
is this the same vw/porsche that had a clear idea how many people were excited for the 4 cylinder cayman. I think they are doing what they think will be more politically correct than not. Socially, I dont see many YouTubers, gen z or any litany of ESG folks in financial services I know wanting an electric sports car.
im sure you will have your greenwich, Beverly Hills or palm beach housewife "excited" to have an EV two seater however.
A 718 BEV - no matter how good it is - won't appeal to the obdurate ICE/manual-gearbox/NA crowd on Rennlist. No matter. VW/Porsche doubtless has a pretty clear idea what subset of the existing Cayman/Boxster user base might take the leap to an electric 2-seater under what conditions, how the VW/AUDI variants will differ and where they'll be positioned, where conquests from other brands (and other models in the Porsche stable) might come from, and how many they need to sell to continue development. Is there risk? Sure, but Porsche wouldn't be where it is today if they'd stopped innovating and experimenting when air-cooled 911s were the brand's only offering. I like a NA, 6- or 7-speed flat-six as much as the next enthusiast - and have had a bunch of 'em - but I'll wait to see what Porsche delivers with the 718 and THEN determine if it maps to one of my driving & ownership use cases. The marque is necessarily evolving in response to political, social and economic realities, and I'm eagerly anticipating getting some seat time - and perhaps owing - one or more of the next generation of its performance offerings.
I think you're giving them too much credit for fortune telling and having a solid plan. I think they have no bloody idea what's going to happen to their sports car side of the company if they have to go full EV and they're crapping themselves at the prospect of being forced to EV up everything.
The proof imo is in them pushing EV'ing the 911 until the very end and using their least popular and most easy to absorb a total flop on sales car. Then they know if they need to go nuts on alternative fuels or if there is a EV solution.
Oliver Blume has also said that the 911 will be the last to go EV. If ever. He's also said it doesn't work for that model. If he's going on the record saying stuff like that, imagine what is being said behind the scenes.
I've spent a lot of time in China and most 718's are driven by women. They men go for bigger/longer cars (sign of status). And the China market has many domestic EV brands now, so I'm not sure how the 718 EV will do there either.
Performance is not a big deal for cars in China either, it seems there are speed cameras every 100 feet there so no one goes above the speed limit - this can be extremely frustrating when you have a driver taking you somewhere 50+ miles away and they are doing 40mph the whole time (while simultaneously staring at their wechat on their phone). Another funny anecdote is that clean cars in China are a rarity, they almost never wash their cars.
It sounds like they solved their wild west style autobahn problem. I haven't been in China in forever but I remember the hired driver my friend's family had and if we dipped under 200kph on the highway at all it wasn't for every long. Doing that on a highway sharing the road with some soviet era 1 cylinder contraption driven by the chinese beverly hillbillies semed nuts.
Meanwhile, another article in the...uhh, very Pro-EV side of things, (WaPo) states how much slower EV growth is than expected by manufacturers and Ford and others are scaling down production b/c nobody is buying. Things are going great though lol.
I'd still recommend people shop elsewhere once Porsche goes EV. The cars are nice but far from something that deserves any type of brand loyalty b/c of a badge.
Meanwhile, another article in the...uhh, very Pro-EV side of things, (WaPo) states how much slower EV growth is than expected by manufacturers and Ford and others are scaling down production b/c nobody is buying. Things are going great though lol.
I'd still recommend people shop elsewhere once Porsche goes EV. The cars are nice but far from something that deserves any type of brand loyalty b/c of a badge.
Maybe because their EV's are shiat for the price. 50k CAD for a hyundai kona or 40k+ chevy bolt? I'm sorry but I don't smoke crack so I'd never pay those prices for what you get there. For 50k I can get a bmw i4 if I really want an EV, or a 330e PHEV which works for hte city and has ICE for long distance. For mid 40s I can get a Tesla model 3 too.
It comes down to money for most too, and if I can buy a mazda 3 or some other entry level ICE car for 25k that on paper is better in almost every way than a chevy bolt, why would I spend more for something worse? You're not breaking even on any electricity savings with a price difference that big, and then if you think long term, the depreciation difference is absolutely crazy on top of all that. You're losing 10s of thousands going entry level EV vs entry level ICE to save thousands on gas. And that's if you live in a dense urban area and never leave it...
Manufacturers should probably leave downtown SF or NY and talk to people who live in North Dakota or Mississippi and find out how out of touch they are with most of the population.
12-23-2023, 09:26 PM
