997s deals around the interwebz (no affiliation)
03-27-2020, 05:28 PM
#6541
Why are you whining about cars being sold to "bottom feeders" on BAT? If the car is nice, it will get flipped quickly and the arbitrage will go away. Between friends and myself, we have sold 6 cars on BAT, and all did at least 10% more than the best trade-in offer from a dealer. It brings a lot of eyeballs and weird cars can find a home for a reasonable value; cars there do much better than at dealers for this reason. Take that nicely rebuilt salvage title 993 which sold the other day. I have driven this car; it is solid and straight as an arrow, but a lot of dealers wouldn't want it due to rules or uncertainty. Yet, the seller, on BAT, was vouched for by many (he is a well known instructor locally and friend to many) and that helps his sale price. People have confidence and know the story. Plenty of super nice cars there go for close to retail. It isn't a retail platform; it is primarily a private party platform designed to cut out the dealer and put more money in both the buyer's and seller's hands.
Why you would have a problem with BAT and people getting cars for less than retail is beyond me; I thought this was the point of the entire thread. I would much rather engage with an enthusiast private party than a retail dealer who will say anything to make a sale.
I think what you meant to say was "BAT pricing is what cars currently go for, not what dealers wished they sold for"
Why you would have a problem with BAT and people getting cars for less than retail is beyond me; I thought this was the point of the entire thread. I would much rather engage with an enthusiast private party than a retail dealer who will say anything to make a sale.
I think what you meant to say was "BAT pricing is what cars currently go for, not what dealers wished they sold for"
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-911-turbo-36/
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-carrera-4-10/
03-27-2020, 06:32 PM
#6542
Damn, someone stole these two 993s!
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-911-turbo-36/
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-carrera-4-10/
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-911-turbo-36/
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-carrera-4-10/
03-27-2020, 06:32 PM
#6543
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Damn, someone stole these two 993s!
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-911-turbo-36/
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-carrera-4-10/
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-911-turbo-36/
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-carrera-4-10/
The few times I have scanned BAT, I saw some stuff that appeared to be stale inventory being moved as I had seen the cars for sale on Cars.com, Gurus and etc.
I did suggest my friend try and sell a Gen I Viper convertible with only 1,200 miles and a Testarossa on BAT, but he was not interested after his Mecum experience. The Viper has about the lowest miles of any Gen I he knew of.
Last edited by Doug H; 03-27-2020 at 06:54 PM.
03-27-2020, 08:10 PM
#6544
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17 years ago, I totaled a 1987 3.2 that was a 1 of 400 special edition. Damage was minimal appearing, but totaled it due to fairly low prices for air cooled cars back then. These older 911s were pretty easy to restore to health so I have no doubt that the above would be a fun and rare car for $42k
A 993tt only bidding up to $88k is pretty crazy. Clean Carfax, but seller disclosed some paint work on driver quarter panel. A big so what about the paint work on a 24 year old car. Another guy commented that the roll cage makes it less valuable. In my circles over the years, that would make it more valuable. Lol, at the modern day mentality of the NEW Porsche owner . . . Nevertheless, a decent and cool looking, clean Carfax 993tt for less than 6 figures is pretty wild.
03-28-2020, 12:43 PM
#6545
Rennlist Member
That's a nice GTS. The PDK means a what....$4k hit on price? The red leather pieces are at first a little off-putting, but maybe, in fact, they are kind of cool.
03-28-2020, 01:04 PM
#6546
Rennlist Member
While I always have my eye out for a nice manual 997.2 WB in almost any color apart from black or metallic black, the reality of buying one during this crisis is a challenge and that's without even having to worry about loans etc.
Travel isn't an option so buying remote is sight unseen. Having had an issue with a car that passed a PPI by a reputable Porsche specialist with flying colors but was beyond tatty when I flew in to complete the purchase and cancelled the sale in the bank carpark, I know that a mechanically good car can be cosmetically unacceptable.
Overton has a GTS that they've been trying to sell for an age but it's got relatively high miles and is still top dollar despite recent price drops. It's also on the other side of the country even with the free enclosed shipping do you want to risk the money or the health implications.
So unless somebody in Marin Co, CA is selling a 997.2 911 S/4S 6spd, this itch will have to wait to be scratched and maybe people will be trying to sell cars on the other side to refill coffers that going to be in for a bumpy ride over the next few months at least.
Travel isn't an option so buying remote is sight unseen. Having had an issue with a car that passed a PPI by a reputable Porsche specialist with flying colors but was beyond tatty when I flew in to complete the purchase and cancelled the sale in the bank carpark, I know that a mechanically good car can be cosmetically unacceptable.
Overton has a GTS that they've been trying to sell for an age but it's got relatively high miles and is still top dollar despite recent price drops. It's also on the other side of the country even with the free enclosed shipping do you want to risk the money or the health implications.
So unless somebody in Marin Co, CA is selling a 997.2 911 S/4S 6spd, this itch will have to wait to be scratched and maybe people will be trying to sell cars on the other side to refill coffers that going to be in for a bumpy ride over the next few months at least.
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Doug H (03-28-2020)
03-28-2020, 01:08 PM
#6547
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There is something strange about this car. It was sold on January 12, 2019, after being listed for sale for about a week. The car was then shipped to Pennsylvania and the new owner put it through emissions on January 16 and the car then listed for sale less than a week later. Did new owner dump it immediately upon receipt or was it sold wholesale? Would not speak super well of the car if a high-end California dealer in 2019 (good market) took it in on trade and immediately dumped it wholesale.
03-28-2020, 01:52 PM
#6548
Rennlist Member
pgk price versus manual? No way to gage or tell. There are so few manuals it basically comes down to what those holding them are willing to sell them for.
There is something strange about this car. It was sold on January 12, 2019, after being listed for sale for about a week. The car was then shipped to Pennsylvania and the new owner put it through emissions on January 16 and the car then listed for sale less than a week later. Did new owner dump it immediately upon receipt or was it sold wholesale? Would not speak super well of the car if a high-end California dealer in 2019 (good market) took it in on trade and immediately dumped it wholesale.
There is something strange about this car. It was sold on January 12, 2019, after being listed for sale for about a week. The car was then shipped to Pennsylvania and the new owner put it through emissions on January 16 and the car then listed for sale less than a week later. Did new owner dump it immediately upon receipt or was it sold wholesale? Would not speak super well of the car if a high-end California dealer in 2019 (good market) took it in on trade and immediately dumped it wholesale.
03-28-2020, 01:54 PM
#6549
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Yea....it was at an emission station on Jan 16 and at a service station in PA on the 17th. I don't think it was ever in California. I suspect it was traded into the Ferrari dealer in Newport Beach CA, then wholesaled out by them through their Alfa dealership to the dealer that has it now.
I, however, do think Driveanything has way too much in this car. They were asking $76k for a long time which is too high for a pdk with 31k miles, a $113k sticker and no alcantara. Sadly, they are probably listing this at a loss now to ease up floor plan.
Last edited by Doug H; 03-28-2020 at 02:15 PM.
03-28-2020, 02:34 PM
#6550
Rennlist Member
Wholeselling a GTS with only 30k miles to me says this car had needs or warts. May or may not have been in California for a short period of time after traded. Just pointing something out that seemed a little strange.
I, however, do think Driveanything has way too much in this car. They were asking $76k for a long time which is too high for a pdk with 31k miles, a $113k sticker and no alcantara. Sadly, they are probably listing this at a loss now to ease up floor plan.
I, however, do think Driveanything has way too much in this car. They were asking $76k for a long time which is too high for a pdk with 31k miles, a $113k sticker and no alcantara. Sadly, they are probably listing this at a loss now to ease up floor plan.
I do find it strange it hasn't sold. They must have had offers. I think the reason it got wholesaled is that it was traded to Ferrari Newport Beach. They made their money on the sale, and they don't sell anything in that dealership except Ferraris and Maseratis. And not cheap ones either. They even wholesale out some Ferraris there. They don't have used car space except what's inside, and it's on Coast Hiway. Expensive. Plus they'd be paying enclosed shipping.
03-28-2020, 04:00 PM
#6551
Three Wheelin'
I do find it strange it hasn't sold. They must have had offers. I think the reason it got wholesaled is that it was traded to Ferrari Newport Beach. They made their money on the sale, and they don't sell anything in that dealership except Ferraris and Maseratis. And not cheap ones either. They even wholesale out some Ferraris there. They don't have used car space except what's inside, and it's on Coast Hiway. Expensive. Plus they'd be paying enclosed shipping.
I went back through the archives at BAT, and the contention that is a bottom feeder site for both cars and bidders is plainly inaccurate. Here are a few examples:
2006 Club Coupe
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2006-porsche-911-carrera-s-53/
Manual GTS
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...arrera-gts-12/
Low Mile Aqua Blue C2S
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...1-carrera-s-8/
Low Mile 997 TT
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2007-porsche-911-turbo-29/
Clean C2S PDK
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...-carrera-s-12/
higher mile PDK GTS
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...-carrera-s-12/
Nobody said each of these cars is "perfect" although most are as clean as any on a lot, but certainly this is not the "junk and bargain" website. Those cars all brought reasonable to strong money.
03-28-2020, 05:34 PM
#6552
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I got my 2009 C4S manual from a friend who owned a specialty dealership; it had been traded in at a Ford dealership and they didn't know what to do with it. He paid $44,000 for it, put 4 new tires on it, did a full fluid service, and sold it to me for $49k, which for a nearly 50,000 mile car that was as clean as this one, was very reasonable.
I went back through the archives at BAT, and the contention that is a bottom feeder site for both cars and bidders is plainly inaccurate. Here are a few examples:
2006 Club Coupe
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2006-porsche-911-carrera-s-53/
Manual GTS
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...arrera-gts-12/
Low Mile Aqua Blue C2S
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...1-carrera-s-8/
Low Mile 997 TT
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2007-porsche-911-turbo-29/
Clean C2S PDK
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...-carrera-s-12/
higher mile PDK GTS
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...-carrera-s-12/
Nobody said each of these cars is "perfect" although most are as clean as any on a lot, but certainly this is not the "junk and bargain" website. Those cars all brought reasonable to strong money.
I went back through the archives at BAT, and the contention that is a bottom feeder site for both cars and bidders is plainly inaccurate. Here are a few examples:
2006 Club Coupe
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2006-porsche-911-carrera-s-53/
Manual GTS
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...arrera-gts-12/
Low Mile Aqua Blue C2S
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...1-carrera-s-8/
Low Mile 997 TT
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2007-porsche-911-turbo-29/
Clean C2S PDK
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...-carrera-s-12/
higher mile PDK GTS
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...-carrera-s-12/
Nobody said each of these cars is "perfect" although most are as clean as any on a lot, but certainly this is not the "junk and bargain" website. Those cars all brought reasonable to strong money.
Uhm, no one ever said it was a "junk and bargain" website.
My "bottom feeder" comment referred to the mentality of most of the bidders at any auction, i.e., looking for a steal and not wanting to pay anywhere near retail. Neither me nor anyone I know in the business that has any game and decent stock would resort to BAT to sell a car. BAT and auctions, however, are a decent idea for those one-off, unicorn type cars.
Cherry picking 6 sales over the last year + out of perhaps a thousand sales is pretty meaningless, but those are certainly some nice cars you picked.
I thought you said you sold your C4S manual a couple of years ago.
997.2 manual prices had shot up in the last year prior to the corona virus so what you paid a friend for a C4S back then may not have any bearing on what the market was a month ago. Sadly, the market for used Porsches is a big who cares compared to the challenges people in this world are facing today.
Last edited by Doug H; 03-28-2020 at 06:40 PM.
03-28-2020, 05:44 PM
#6553
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I do find it strange it hasn't sold. They must have had offers. I think the reason it got wholesaled is that it was traded to Ferrari Newport Beach. They made their money on the sale, and they don't sell anything in that dealership except Ferraris and Maseratis. And not cheap ones either. They even wholesale out some Ferraris there. They don't have used car space except what's inside, and it's on Coast Hiway. Expensive. Plus they'd be paying enclosed shipping.
03-29-2020, 11:42 AM
#6554
Rennlist Member
Agreed...the price was too high. My point is they should have had offers in a 12 month period.
03-29-2020, 12:20 PM
#6555
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Decent 997.2s were going for dang near retail at auction in 2019 and Manhiem wholesale would have been around same price. So let’s just assume they purchased for upper $60s, They then have shipping and pack costs. Add to that any costs or repairs to sell car and they could easily have low $70s in the car.
The only way to get a sound car like this at a decent cost in 2019 was to take it in on trade, not auction or wholesale. The wholesale/auction market for quality liquid cars was a blood bath in 2018 and 2019. Used car dealers relied upon back end money for their profits. Unlike used car dealerships, new car dealerships get their pick of lease cars and have a constant flow of trade ins.
The car was listed for sale by Ferrari of Newport for a few days and this is certainly the type of car an Alfa Romero dealership would have wanted to sell if it was a decent car that needed nothing. Just because they only have used Ferraris right now at this moment doesn’t mean they never sell other brands, even with limited space. They are in business to make $$$s and will do so if profit is there.
Last edited by Doug H; 03-29-2020 at 01:13 PM.