GC996

Slakker, I went thru 2 aos back in the mid 2000s on the track. Went to the motorsports aos after. Just replaced my motorsports aos a couple of months ago with the UAOS track version with the drain back. My motorsports aos failed in my garage when I started my car. It was a no brainer to replace with uaos. Take a look at Jason's "Oil stability" thread. You will see how the drainback developed on the track as well as the ability to run an extra quart of oil.

Slakker

Not arguing that there are people that have issues with the stock AOS, and the motorsports version is just a larger version of the same thing. But an AOS is a cheap and easy replacement on a track car at whatever your major service interval is (I uses 100 hours for mine, or 100k miles for street). By simply using the coolant bypass piece of this solution, a person could eliminate the "dreaded intermix" failure that seems to cause so much fear. I do like that UAOS allows for running a higher oil level than a stock or motorsport AOS, though.

But this is literally the same concept that the BMW's have been using for years to bypass their CCV (similar to our AOS). I'm only trolling Skip's bravado that this is some kind of an original idea. The BMW catch cans drain back into the oil tubes just like this one. I also think it could be done less expensively by eliminating the original AOS, which Skip states isn't doing anything anymore, and just plumb over to actual separator with hoses and adapters.

GC996

Coulda, woulda, shoulda is something we can all say about things that should have been developed for the 996.

But the reality is that Skip did it. Nobody else did.

Look man, don't know what your objective is here, but if you don't want the UAOS and are perfectly happy with brittle AOS then stick with it.

What puzzles me is that you haven't run into anyone with problems with the AOS. I was a track nut from 2004-2018 and ran into it just about every track day with someone suffering from it. He'll, I was just at Road America with the Chicago region over memorial day talking to a guy that started tracking his 996C4S this season and was miffed about blowing oil. I explained to him about what was happening and to get a UAOS and why.

Let's stop with the belly aching and start with the applause that Skip had the ***** to build it.

Slakker

@Porschetech3 Yes, I will tend to troll people that make statements that I don't understand or I think could potentially be false. So I appreciate you taking the time to respond. As consumers, it's the only protection we have from "trust me" marketing claims which we have all been burnt by in the past. Statements such as "lifetime" and "I know more than anyone else" are red flags that typically will prompt me to dig a little deeper. Two more follow-up questions:

• Do you have any before and after data showing how much engine temperatures increase when adding the coolant bypass?
• As a relatively new company with only two products and limited production capabilities, how will the "lifetime" guarantee be honored if you move on to other things or are unable to do this anymore?
  
  And then just an observation. Normally, in other industries I have worked in, an environmental chamber is used to stress products as a whole, and then mean time between failures are calculated and provided before making any type of a claim like this. I've never seen where someone changed materials for one specific component and then used that material's rating as the rating for the entire product. Just something to think about.
  
  Again, thank you for your time spent responding.

wildbilly32

Yeah, mine lasted less than three years and less the 2,500 miles on the street. I'm ordering the UAOS soon as I hear back from my Indie. "The OEM is garbage" is my experience...

GC996

Dude, even though I have owned my 996.2 for 20 years, i have only been on rennlist since the end of 2019 because i couldnt take the belly aching, bs and false information that is typically passed on by folks that have no idea what they are talking about.

But I got involved because I was looking to see if any further developments have occurred in the 996 world for oil and cooling issues.

What you find is there are those guys that are the guys with mechanical experience, tracking experience, pretty stuff experience and then everyone else.

Skip has earned my respect and trust with what he has provided this community with advice and inventions.

Yes, everybody should ask questions. But there is no need to be an *** about it. You got a problem, contact him directly. The last thing we want or need in the 996 world are guys with the knowledge and experience to develop these solutions that choose not to share them with the community because they just don't want the headaches created by folks that think they are Ralph Nader.

Come on man...

Slakker

Stock and Motorsport AOS's will blow smoke, every time, if you overfill them. It is not a sign of them going bad, it is a sign of the oil being overfilled. And typically it happens when someone adds oil based on the dipstick on a hot engine. My guess is that it's the main reason that Porsche removed the dipstick and requires up to a 60min wait period for the oil to be measured for the 987/997.

I may be a potential customer if I have a stock engine that is showing oil pressure under 20 or 25 psi and I've provided some reasonable observations that might help him lower his cost to be more inline with how the problem was solved for the BMW's. I've questioned some of his "bolder" statements but I don't feel like I've caused any harm in the process, especially by RL standards.

GC996

Slakker, not certain if you been reading any of this stuff and grasp the issues.

No ****...

Of course they blow smoke at full oil. Have known this for 20 years. MAOS works better at full oil than does the AOS. I found that out in 2006. Go back to Skips pictures on the Motorsports AOS thread where he shows the MAOS is bigger, but it still drains at the same rate at the AOS.

He addressed that with better draining with the UAOS track version that was tested on Zbombs oil stability thread.

Look, if you have better design then bring it out. If not, stop with the belly aching.

Porschetech3

@Slakker You certainly are a troll,and a hard headed one at that.I'm positive you haven't read all of what I have said about the UAOS over the last two years, so I'm not surprised you are not "up to Speed". But I find your lack of knowledge strangely amusing, and the fact that you "misquoted" things I even said directly to you yesturday makes me wonder if you really have a hidden agenda.?

And I would really appreciate your posts/questions being limited to one or paragraphs. I am not a Journalist, My older Sister and her husband were, She wrote for Encyclopedia Britannica, and He was Editor of NYT for 25 years, but neither had any of what we call common since/practical since..I hate to read or write really long posts..

First off I never said that in the UAOS that the modified AOS does "nothing", I said that the "body' is all I "use"....I disable the "heating function" and the "diaphragm flow control function" which are 100% of the failure modes to the AOS, and I "modify" the AOS in 2 ways to make it "way more efficient" ,, so yes as I correctly described it does do it's job even better, but I didn't stop there, the rest is icing on the cake..

It is a full package, fully redesigned and much Superior..

Oh and the coolant temperature does not change one iota whether the AOS is by-passed or not, that is just a silly assumption/question that shows you are really not qualified to be asking or you are simply Trolling with an agenda..

Oh and the Lifetime warranty dies with me .....my lifetime, or if my Son takes over the Patent he will honor it..

BTW what AOS system are you planning on running on your NEW Build?? Let me beat up on it a bit instead of being on the defensive of the UAOS..

Slakker

@Porschetech3 Apologies, I will be brief. Asking about engine temp. Not sure what other purpose coolant through the stock AOS would serve but I'm open to learning... Thank you for clarification on "lifetime" being yours or potentially more. That makes sense to me. FYI, commercial insurance companies offer "warranty bonds" that would allow you to provide a more tangible answer, if desired.

@GC996 I think it's great Skip has fans like you to support him. Skip has helped me out many times over the years and I've been one myself. But I tend to gravitate towards humble grease monkeys and am partially just trying to understand what changed... On the failed AOS's you mentioned, what failed on them and how was it determined? I'm always interested in data, even if anecdotal.

GC996

Look man. Enough of going around in circles. We have discussed what fails on the AOS and MAOS as well as their short comings for 20+ years.

My suggestion to you is to get the grease monkey experience you reference by talking to as many Porsche Indies that support the M96 engine in PCA events as you can. He'll, we talked about this crap every freaking track day from the first time I stepped foot on the track in 2004. I am miffed on why you never heard of this. Absolutely miffed?!

Regarding Skip helping you out in the past, thats great. But i would hate to see how you treat your enemies after your treatment of Skip, a guy that most likely helped you out many times in the past.

Slakker

Not relevant

Porschetech3

@Slakker Why don't you ask your engine builder the purpose of the coolant running through the AOS is.

Then come back and tell us all what he/they said, I and will say if it is correct or not...

That way we will both learn something..You will learn why the coolant is ran through the AOS is the first place, and I will learn what your engine builder thinks
Oh BTW you forgot to say what AOS system your are going to use..

Slakker

@Porschetech3 If you are referring to Hartech, technically they will be my machinists. They inspect the stock AOS and replace it if necessary on the engines that they build. And I think they may have tested a previous version of yours that still had some issues, and decided to pass. But I will use a stock AOS as well, just as the shop that I've considered my "race build mentors" all of these years, does themselves. And I'll have a build thread for my engine that shares what I know and provides an opportunity for me to continue learning from others questions and observations.

But back to the data. With engine temps being such a huge factor on track, it just seems like good engineering to me to test the impact of removing factory cooling on the AOS before marketing a product that deletes it. Or at least more responsible than acting like a victim every time someone inquires about how much due diligence you did on this product before profiting from it.

Porschetech3

Wow..Ok you DO need some education then..

Besides what I previously explained as the UAOS function in a simplified over-view.....to delve a little deeper into it....

The purpose of running coolant to the Factory AOS ( with the diaphragm/flow regulator still functioning as factory designed) is to keep ice from forming on the flow control port due to the low pressure area when the diaphragm is near closed and in really cold weather. It is not cooling the AOS but rather "heating" the AOS. due to 911's having the AOS at the front of the engine ahead of most of the engine heat. Boxsters on the other hand are reversed and the Factory AOS is at the Rear of the engine where all the heat is above the cats. Boxsters/Caymans DO NOT have coolant lines run to them from the factory. and they have the exact same AOS system minus the coolant/heating ports..

On the UAOS the "flow control/diaphragm" is moved to the back of the engine where it is much warmer( and can be accessed easily in minutes) due to being "behind" the engine and "above" the cats/exhaust and gets all the heat it needs to keep from icing in cold weather, just like Boxsters/Caymans.

So the coolant/heater lines can be eliminated with UAOS, since there is no longer had a "low pressure area" in the "AOS body it's self".. And they are a failure point that needs to be eliminated..All the lines, clamps, the heating chamber in the AOS body, the little plastic connector that breaks so often all can/is eliminated in UAOS..

And like I said previously, whether the AOS coolant/heater lines are used or not doesn't make one iota difference to the engine temp...