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NEO and PTS Rubystar are still two different colors. I get what your saying but we haven't seen the NEO in the flesh yet to know how different they are. I PTS'd Rubystar and could have changed mine to NEO and chose not to due to not having a clue what NEO would actually look like. I also did a lot of CXX so just the fact the car will be PTS and CXX meant something to me. I mean I see people PTS white, to each their own.
I was in the exact same situation - well kinda, it appears PTS locks way before it "locks" according to TYD, so I probably couldn't have changed it anyhow. As it happened, soon after they announced RS Neo, I was going with my buddy to pick up his '23 Touring at PECLA and they were able to show me the colors side by side (they didn't actually have the shell thing for RS Neo, but someone there had a metallic swatch) and I still preferred the original rubystar and kept my build PTS. All that is to say, better to go with what you know you'll love. You'll forget the few thousand bucks quickly, but you'll love the color forever (or as long as you own the car).
I totally hear you, and I hope you understood that my comment was absolutely NOT a dig at the color (which incidentally really like!), but was just a poor attempt at trying to understand why the seller didn’t take $60k over MSRP… which means to me that he/she is greedy and/or over vested $$$-wise in the car.
Congrats on your car BTW… special opportunity to be able to spec it exactly the way YOU want!
I didn’t take it negatively at all, no worries. So the car didn’t sell? Like another poster commented, they probably got taken on 100k ADM thinking they’d recover. Thanks! I’m so happy I was able to spec everything exactly how I wanted vs buying used.
Comments here basically sum up what people think about gt3 adm
Like I said, if I don't get an MSRP allocation for a GT3RS this year I'll start looking to buy Speciale and maybe even a Pista if prices get closer to sticker.
There will always be enough people around with enough money to pay a big ADM on these cars. That’s a constant. The question is how many of them want this particular car, and how badly, considering the other uses to which they could put their money.
If a significant part of the demand is by speculators who don’t actually want to own and drive the car, or by people who want to own and drive it pretty much for free, that part of the demand will fall away pretty quickly if/when prices show a clear downward trend.
Comments here basically sum up what people think about gt3 adm
heinous color, winged, 1700 miles. Still bid over 50k adm. I don’t think this makes the point you hope it would. Is the market changing ? Sure. Enough ? Lolz nope.
Dealer invoice base price for a 2022 GT3 is about $148K, and MSRP is about $164K, so that’s about $16K profit for the dealer, not accounting for dealer expenses.
I read years ago that Porsche makes about $25K profit on a 911. If that’s the case for the 992 GT3, that means that it costs about $123K to make the car, including all expenses. Throw in some options and you could say that it costs about $140K to make the car. That’s not a high cost, and reflects the fact that this is a mass-produced car derived from a base 911.
I personally don’t see how the car could be considered to be worth double that amount. My build for a new one at MSRP would be around $185K, which I think is a fair price which gives plenty of profit margin for Porsche and the dealer.
Dealer invoice base price for a 2022 GT3 is about $148K, and MSRP is about $164K, so that’s about $16K profit for the dealer, not accounting for dealer expenses.
I read years ago that Porsche makes about $25K profit on a 911. If that’s the case for the 992 GT3, that means that it costs about $123K to make the car, including all expenses. Throw in some options and you could say that it costs about $140K to make the car. That’s not a high cost, and reflects the fact that this is a mass-produced car derived from a base 911.
I personally don’t see how the car could be considered to be worth double that amount. My build for a new one at MSRP would be around $185K, which I think is a fair price which gives plenty of profit margin for Porsche and the dealer.
I would just briefly argue that thanks to the fact that the GT3 is mostly sharing a platform with the other 911 models, we end up benefiting from “scale savings” which make the COGM of the GT3 much lower than some of its direct competitors which have much smaller production volumes. I guess in that sense, we should feel “lucky” that Porsche can and is making the car.
Also, as already mentioned so many times, there is a big difference between price and value… and in the case of the GT3, that difference is worth about $50-150k to current buyers.
Maybe I just have the brass neck to think it's the other way around. A standard C2S coupe is more "rare" in production numbers than a GT3. Making me feel it's a mass-produced car similar to the M3 to the 3-series... Below is the production number for the 991.2
Maybe I just have the brass neck to think it's the other way around. A standard C2S coupe is more "rare" in production numbers than a GT3. Making me feel it's a mass-produced car similar to the M3 to the 3-series... Below is the production number for the 991.2
Sure, you can slice and dice this however you want to make your point, but if you aggregate over the three years by regrouping the coupe, convertible, turbo and GT cars, you will see a completely different picture. I am also sure that margins on the different models is going to lead Porsche to make more or less of the different ones… but this is now even more prominent on the 992 because the front suspension is no longer shared with other non-GT 992.
Anyhow, I still stand by my point: price and value are two different metrics. One is an objective one, the latter is mostly based on one’s opinion… and thus, they can not be reconciled while achieving consensus.
I would just briefly argue that thanks to the fact that the GT3 is mostly sharing a platform with the other 911 models, we end up benefiting from “scale savings” which make the COGM of the GT3 much lower than some of its direct competitors which have much smaller production volumes. I guess in that sense, we should feel “lucky” that Porsche can and is making the car.
Also, as already mentioned so many times, there is a big difference between price and value… and in the case of the GT3, that difference is worth about $50-150k to current buyers.
I don't disagree that for the GT3, there is some difference between price and value, but I don't think it's as big as you think, if you are suggesting that $50k-150k is the appropriate range (I know you say "current buyers"). The demand since the 992 GT3 came out was artificially inflated: among other things, (1) there was way too much money in the system as a result of stimulus and quantitative easing, (2) asset bubbles formed, such as crypto, that helped to cause bubbles for luxury goods, and (3) speculation came into being when people saw that they could make money from flipping, all fueled by extremely low interest rates, aka free money. I'm sure the corporate folks at Porsche were surprised at how high values ultimately went. We are now in the middle of price discovery for the GT3, which by the way is happening with other things like housing. GT3 sellers are holding onto the hope that they can continue to get the prices people were willing to pay previously, but they are beginning to understand that they will not be able to. It's just a matter of time before they capitulate and prices reflect a normalized level of demand. What that price level ultimately is, I don't know. I can only make an educated guess.
I don't disagree that for the GT3, there is some difference between price and value, but I don't think it's as big as you think, if you are suggesting that $50k-150k is the appropriate range (I know you say "current buyers"). The demand since the 992 GT3 came out was artificially inflated: among other things, (1) there was way too much money in the system as a result of stimulus and quantitative easing, (2) asset bubbles formed, such as crypto, that helped to cause bubbles for luxury goods, and (3) speculation came into being when people saw that they could make money from flipping, all fueled by extremely low interest rates, aka free money. I'm sure the corporate folks at Porsche were surprised at how high values ultimately went. We are now in the middle of price discovery for the GT3, which by the way is happening with other things like housing. GT3 sellers are holding onto the hope that they can continue to get the prices people were willing to pay previously, but they are beginning to understand that they will not be able to. It's just a matter of time before they capitulate and prices reflect a normalized level of demand. What that price level ultimately is, I don't know. I can only make an educated guess.
Agree on pretty much all points… this is why I had indeed written “current buyers”.
heinous color, winged, 1700 miles. Still bid over 50k adm. I don’t think this makes the point you hope it would. Is the market changing ? Sure. Enough ? Lolz nope.
50k over ADM is certainly a lot lower than it would have been a year ago, so not sure how you can say the market hasn't changed significantly. You didn't answer my question about what you think appropriate pricing for a GT3 is. Will prices stay where they are now? I'm asking because people like me are "always wrong," so I am asking you since you were implying that you are "always right."
Comments here basically sum up what people think about gt3 adm
I agree with you - I'm thinking late this year. I think we will start to feel the full effects of higher interest rates and quantitative tightening by then.
I agree with you - I'm thinking late this year. I think we will start to feel the full effects of higher interest rates and quantitative tightening by then.
interest rates already high, middle of winter, 3RS and 4RS already out, coming up on 2 years of production with a 5% price hike for MY23, stocks are dumped, crypto dumped… point is, what else needs to happen for this ‘significant’ drop in market pricing?
991.2 GT3s we’re around MSRP about a year after production started
01-17-2023, 12:52 PM
