GT3 Dealer Allocation Thread
04-03-2017, 12:22 PM
#947
Mooty, you should have reminded Lithia that non-refundable deposits are not legal in California...
04-03-2017, 12:24 PM
#948
Race Car
04-03-2017, 12:25 PM
#949
I'm guessing it'll be easier to just make a list of those selling at MSRP. Methinks it'll be a shorter list.
04-03-2017, 12:31 PM
#950
I'd like to see the law on that, as dealers and a lawyer told me there are per se unenforceable in new vehicle contracts in CA. Even if there wasn't a strict limitation, and I've been told there is, the maximum amount they could retain would be their liquidated damages and they'd have to prove there were some. That would be pretty hard to prove on a car in high demand selling at huge premiums. A dealer cannot unjustly enrich themselves at your expense, which is what would occur if they held the deposit.
04-03-2017, 12:37 PM
#951
Race Car
Most deposit are refundable. However, if the car is unique and limited the CA Court of Appeals has held that the dealer can confiscate the deposit. BTW, the car involved was a Ferrari F40. The decision was decided I believe in the early nineties.
04-03-2017, 12:48 PM
#952
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Yea they do need just the ok from wherever you want the courtesy deliver gets done. Sorry to hear you had problems, I haven't heard anyone having problems with it on my end. Usually dealers gladly take it because they receive extra funds for PDI, and a chance for future services (for whatever reasons the people choose to do courtesy delivery for, like different residents in different states). Also leaves the customer in a bad taste with a refusal, so if I was a VIP customer, I wouldn't recommend the dealer or buy regular cars from them for future references.
04-03-2017, 12:51 PM
#953
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by chaosoul
Honestly, it is in the dealer's best interest to sell to the 918 VIP customers at MSRP for a few reasons. Firstly, as Whoopsy has mentioned, you can't just change host dealers anytime you want easily for convenience, but however it is possible if you are very dissatisfied with the dealer or you have a permanent resident location change, etc.
The 918 VIP allocations for cars (such as 911R, RS, GT3, etc) are not part of dealer's allocation pool. These extra cars are technically "extra money" dealer is making. Dealer's will still make around 25-30k per 911R and RS including holdbacks for selling at MSRP. Even if selling over MSRP to 918 customers is possible for the dealer, they would be essentially be risking the 918 customer to permanently move host dealer and lose out on free 25-30k profit on all future extra allocation for these customers (like GT2RS, Speedster, GT4RS, etc). I would just make the easy money without conflict since these allocations were extra anyways. I am sure another dealer would gladly take over another 918 customer as host dealer to transact their future allocations at MSRP to make free extra profit.
As mentioned, the 918 VIP program allocations are not the dealer's allocation, the allocation is paired to the customer name under PVMS. For example, if a dealer says "I will only sell your 911R to you at 100k over", the customer can refuse to buy it like any customer's right. However, the dealer cannot just sell it to another customer at 100k or 200k over. Now not only the dealer lose out on the easy 30k profit from the deal, they can not sell the car to another customer. PCNA is extremely strict about these appointed allocation's contract have to be sent back to PCNA with the new registered owner matching 918 customer's name (even if it is under a corporation). PCNA will decide what to do with the allocation, whether to move the allocation to a different dealer, or in the case where the 918 customer actually doesn't want to buy it anymore, PCNA will decide what name to change to allocation to (like race car drivers, celebrity, Porsche business partners, etc)
On a different side note, although 918 VIP customers cannot just choose which dealer they want the allocation to be sent to, their car can be delivered to any dealer in the US every time. They call it courtesy delivery, where the ordering and purchasing of the car is still done through the original host dealer, but the car is sent directly from port and vessel to a different delivery dealer, where they would PDI and wash the car for them to pick up.
The 918 VIP allocations for cars (such as 911R, RS, GT3, etc) are not part of dealer's allocation pool. These extra cars are technically "extra money" dealer is making. Dealer's will still make around 25-30k per 911R and RS including holdbacks for selling at MSRP. Even if selling over MSRP to 918 customers is possible for the dealer, they would be essentially be risking the 918 customer to permanently move host dealer and lose out on free 25-30k profit on all future extra allocation for these customers (like GT2RS, Speedster, GT4RS, etc). I would just make the easy money without conflict since these allocations were extra anyways. I am sure another dealer would gladly take over another 918 customer as host dealer to transact their future allocations at MSRP to make free extra profit.
As mentioned, the 918 VIP program allocations are not the dealer's allocation, the allocation is paired to the customer name under PVMS. For example, if a dealer says "I will only sell your 911R to you at 100k over", the customer can refuse to buy it like any customer's right. However, the dealer cannot just sell it to another customer at 100k or 200k over. Now not only the dealer lose out on the easy 30k profit from the deal, they can not sell the car to another customer. PCNA is extremely strict about these appointed allocation's contract have to be sent back to PCNA with the new registered owner matching 918 customer's name (even if it is under a corporation). PCNA will decide what to do with the allocation, whether to move the allocation to a different dealer, or in the case where the 918 customer actually doesn't want to buy it anymore, PCNA will decide what name to change to allocation to (like race car drivers, celebrity, Porsche business partners, etc)
On a different side note, although 918 VIP customers cannot just choose which dealer they want the allocation to be sent to, their car can be delivered to any dealer in the US every time. They call it courtesy delivery, where the ordering and purchasing of the car is still done through the original host dealer, but the car is sent directly from port and vessel to a different delivery dealer, where they would PDI and wash the car for them to pick up.
This brings up one more question:
If a VIP 918 allocation are separate from dealer allocations, why are so many dealers telling everyone THEIR allocations have all been taken up by 918 customers? Either the dealers are making stuff up (very possible), or the dealers are misunderstanding/misrepresenting their allocations.
04-03-2017, 12:59 PM
#954
Rennlist Member
Thanks for the info!
This brings up one more question:
If a VIP 918 allocation are separate from dealer allocations, why are so many dealers telling everyone THEIR allocations have all been taken up by 918 customers? Either the dealers are making stuff up (very possible), or the dealers are misunderstanding/misrepresenting their allocations.
This brings up one more question:
If a VIP 918 allocation are separate from dealer allocations, why are so many dealers telling everyone THEIR allocations have all been taken up by 918 customers? Either the dealers are making stuff up (very possible), or the dealers are misunderstanding/misrepresenting their allocations.
I believe that once the VIP accepts the order the allocation is assigned to the dealer- so technically it's still an allocation with that dealer. In my case the dealer has two VIP's but only one allocation (it's a small dealership)- so I don't know what's up with that. I think the other VIP is probably waiting to see when the manuals are available and then place the order. So in fact, my dealer has yet to receive an open allocation- they are hoping for September. But when you check with Porsche Atlanta, it shows they have one allocation...
04-03-2017, 01:04 PM
#955
Instructor
I think you can pretty much assume ANY dealer in Cali is going to be the same. My 2 were Beverly Hills and Downtown LA. The latter actually surprised me as they don't typically sell over MSRP. I guess they figured there's more $$ to be had. Interesting enough, I know certain auto groups (since many of these dealers are now owned by larger corporations, ie Penske's, Autonations, etc.) have a policy of not selling over MSRP.
04-03-2017, 01:10 PM
#956
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I'd like to see the law on that, as dealers and a lawyer told me there are per se unenforceable in new vehicle contracts in CA. Even if there wasn't a strict limitation, and I've been told there is, the maximum amount they could retain would be their liquidated damages and they'd have to prove there were some. That would be pretty hard to prove on a car in high demand selling at huge premiums. A dealer cannot unjustly enrich themselves at your expense, which is what would occur if they held the deposit.
Consumer rights in CA have changed quite a bit in CA since the 90s. Most of the time, yes you'll be able to get your deposit back eventually, but if the dealer want to play hard ball you'll have to take them to court, which I'm guessing most of you on here would gladly do if its against a dealer haha. If brought to court, the dealer would have to provide evidence to back up their losses for this particular vehicle, and it would have to be compelling as the judge will likely side with the consumer (similar to a judge siding with a cop on a traffic ticket on a "he said she said" scenario without evidence).
For custom cars like when you buy a Rolls Royce Phantom Drophead with pink leather interior, your name stitches on more than 8 places throughout the car's leather, door sill guard in your name with family crest, the RR dealer will make you sign a simple agreement saying that because of the nature of these custom options, you acknowledge the dealer's potential loss if you didn't purchase the car, so the dealer is entitled to loss recuperation. In this case you can still take them to court and it still may not be enforceable but they are more likely to win than not.
For me, I see it being a 2 sided blade for California. It is good in some way but it is bad in some way. Too many consumers will be turned away by dealers because their order is "not popular". Like seen on Macan when owner's want Sapphire blue exterior on Garnet red interior, the superman combo, many dealer's will refuse to order the car for them because they say if you decide it looks bad in person when it comes, they have to refund your deposit and they'll be the one stuck with it. Also seen on cars like BMW M3, M2, M5 etc when customers want to order manual but the dealer would refuse because they claim the car is too hard to sell if you back out. It gets even harder when you want your name on door sillguards etc (although some dealers are ok with it because door sillguards are much easier to replace than say, your leather). For states in which a deposit is non-refundable, dealers will more likely to order the exact specs of your car even if it was less popular.
04-03-2017, 01:23 PM
#957
Rennlist Member
Looks like state laws only complicate the matter. Better to leave grown-ups just sign whatever contract suits both sides best on a case by case basis.
04-03-2017, 01:24 PM
#958
Race Director
Thanks for the info!
This brings up one more question:
If a VIP 918 allocation are separate from dealer allocations, why are so many dealers telling everyone THEIR allocations have all been taken up by 918 customers? Either the dealers are making stuff up (very possible), or the dealers are misunderstanding/misrepresenting their allocations.
This brings up one more question:
If a VIP 918 allocation are separate from dealer allocations, why are so many dealers telling everyone THEIR allocations have all been taken up by 918 customers? Either the dealers are making stuff up (very possible), or the dealers are misunderstanding/misrepresenting their allocations.
04-03-2017, 01:28 PM
#959
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Thanks for the info!
This brings up one more question:
If a VIP 918 allocation are separate from dealer allocations, why are so many dealers telling everyone THEIR allocations have all been taken up by 918 customers? Either the dealers are making stuff up (very possible), or the dealers are misunderstanding/misrepresenting their allocations.
This brings up one more question:
If a VIP 918 allocation are separate from dealer allocations, why are so many dealers telling everyone THEIR allocations have all been taken up by 918 customers? Either the dealers are making stuff up (very possible), or the dealers are misunderstanding/misrepresenting their allocations.
The dealers are making stuff up to tell you why they can't get you a car.
Dealer's allocations are consist of 4 categories: Dealer's pool allocation, 918 VIP program allocation, VVIP allocations, and special allocations.
Prior to 2014, 99.5% of all allocations are just Dealer's pool allocation. When PCNA debuts the car, they first contact 918 VIP program customers and VVIP customers. They determine how many of them want the GT3, for example. PCNA tallies up exactly how many of them want the GT3 initially (lets say 150 918 VIP customers want it and 30 VVIP customers want it). Then they wait for PAG Germany to tell them exactly how many they will get from July production to December production. Lets just say a random number of 500. PCNA will first allocate the cars to the 918 VIP customers based on where their host dealer is, and allocate the VVIP customers to wherever they name they want (of course, all cars at PCNA's final discretion; if they still qualify etc). So we have 500 - 150 - 30 = 320 allocations (again, just random made up numbers). Then PCNA determines the dealer's pool allocation based on performance and sales. They tally up what each dealer's % of sales for a particular model in the nation. For example, if Rusnak Porsche sold 0.5% of all GT cars (or just 911) in the nation in previous 12 months, they will get approximately 0.5% of the 320 allocations left (after subtracting 918 VIP and VVIP). It is not exact as they will adjust it minutely (add or minus) based on other performances (like violations, other total sales, Premier dealer or not, etc).
Sometimes 918 customers would say "no they are not interested in the beginning" when they are determining allocations, but few weeks later decides that they do want it. PCNA would have to use their own discretion to see if they can squeeze them in, or wait till the next allocation cycle to come down from PAG Germany (for cars like GT3 which are less limited, for 911R it may not be possible if you refuse it in beginning).
04-03-2017, 01:40 PM
#960
Race Car
How does Porsche define VVIP? Also, what triggers special allocations?