GT3 Dealer Allocation Thread
04-03-2017, 04:54 PM
#991
Regardless of how big the lists are, I just don't buy that the market clearing price for this car is $50k over and that dealers are going to find very many people willing to pony up that much over sticker.
04-03-2017, 04:59 PM
#992
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=997rs4.0;14083504]
Agree with you that Porsche is turning away the classic gt buyer at the moment.
That might be one of the reasons we will see gt2rs and 991.2rs sooner than you think. That will direct the interest away from the 991.2gt3 and free up some allocations. If you want a 991.2gt3 I would just sit still in the boat until those models have been released.
Yup, I'll quietly let the GT2RS and GT3RS come out in the next 12 months and wait for my turn in 2018 to get a GT3. No way in hell am I getting a car in 2017. It's ok, got enough fun cars to keep my occupied. Besides, I need to hustle more if I want to add a GT3 and GT3RS to the stable. 
Originally Posted by mass27
Agree with you that Porsche is turning away the classic gt buyer at the moment.
That might be one of the reasons we will see gt2rs and 991.2rs sooner than you think. That will direct the interest away from the 991.2gt3 and free up some allocations. If you want a 991.2gt3 I would just sit still in the boat until those models have been released.
04-03-2017, 05:08 PM
#994
And the same 50-ish cars have been on AutoTrader, unsold, for months. I've been following them and the same cars are just sitting there unsold. There's a great build on there, local guys, very low miles, a few nice add ons, perfect condition, only $30k over. And it's been sitting there for months.
04-03-2017, 05:21 PM
#995
Nothing new here. Always a next car.
Dealers won't be getting $50k over for a 991.2gt3. That's $200k+ for a gt3.
When 991.2rs is released gen 1rs will be msrp -30k
The one car that will be hard to get is the gt4rs if they make it. Talk about crazy demand. Bare bones 4.0l cayman RS around $130k.
Dealers won't be getting $50k over for a 991.2gt3. That's $200k+ for a gt3.
When 991.2rs is released gen 1rs will be msrp -30k
The one car that will be hard to get is the gt4rs if they make it. Talk about crazy demand. Bare bones 4.0l cayman RS around $130k.
04-03-2017, 05:25 PM
#997
Dealers in the US were told to put in order demands (V70) for the GT3 because PCNA can use that information to tell Germany "hey... look at all the demand in the US for GT3's... please send more allocations our way." Despite the obvious fact there's huge demand for the car, many dealers don't bother to put V70 orders in PVMS simply because it takes time away from other things to do.
If you received a commission number in V70 status, it does absolutely NOTHING for you and does not get you any closer to receiving an allocation. It also does NOTHING for the individual dealer who puts in V70 orders, despite what the regional reps tell the dealers. All it does is enable PCNA to show Zuffenhausen all the pent up demand in the US. Right now, Canada is showing more V70 orders than the US, so the regional reps in the US recently pushed their dealers to input their customers into PVMS simply to show what everyone already knows - yes, there is HUGE demand in the US.... send allocations our way....
To be perfectly honest, the United States is not the preferred country for Zuffenhausen to allocate their products, from the GT models downward. PCNA begs for these allocations just like you beg your dealers for them. Because the selling price of Porsches are LESS in the United States versus other countries (due to a more competitive market), Zuffenhausen would rather sell their products in countries like China or Singapore or the ME; Zuffenhausen makes LESS per car sold to PCNA than to other countries. Of course, the flip side to this is that the US is the biggest market. First and foremost, Porsche is a business and they will direct their product to marketplaces where they can maximize profit. And yes, I understand Porsche makes $17K (or whatever it is) per car sold in the US, but Porsche actually makes MORE in other countries.
Think of it like this... if Zuffenhausen had 1 extra GT3 to allocate anywhere in the world, where would they allocate it? They would attempt to sell it to the country that pays the highest price for it. The base "invoice price" that PCNA pays the factory is far less than the base "invoice price" paid by the distributers in other countries. Plus, the amount of litigation exposure in the US is infinitely more than in other countries. All prices being the same, there is a lot of brain damage doing business in the US.
To bring this full circle, when you have a commission number in V70 status, it only means your dealer is cooperating with PCNA's wishes that all dealers input their demand in PVMS. This aggregate demand is used to show Germany that they should direct more GT allocations to the US, rather than, say, Canada or Singapore or wherever. If you have a commission number in V200 status, you've got a real allocation.
It's all about the benjamins....
If you received a commission number in V70 status, it does absolutely NOTHING for you and does not get you any closer to receiving an allocation. It also does NOTHING for the individual dealer who puts in V70 orders, despite what the regional reps tell the dealers. All it does is enable PCNA to show Zuffenhausen all the pent up demand in the US. Right now, Canada is showing more V70 orders than the US, so the regional reps in the US recently pushed their dealers to input their customers into PVMS simply to show what everyone already knows - yes, there is HUGE demand in the US.... send allocations our way....
To be perfectly honest, the United States is not the preferred country for Zuffenhausen to allocate their products, from the GT models downward. PCNA begs for these allocations just like you beg your dealers for them. Because the selling price of Porsches are LESS in the United States versus other countries (due to a more competitive market), Zuffenhausen would rather sell their products in countries like China or Singapore or the ME; Zuffenhausen makes LESS per car sold to PCNA than to other countries. Of course, the flip side to this is that the US is the biggest market. First and foremost, Porsche is a business and they will direct their product to marketplaces where they can maximize profit. And yes, I understand Porsche makes $17K (or whatever it is) per car sold in the US, but Porsche actually makes MORE in other countries.
Think of it like this... if Zuffenhausen had 1 extra GT3 to allocate anywhere in the world, where would they allocate it? They would attempt to sell it to the country that pays the highest price for it. The base "invoice price" that PCNA pays the factory is far less than the base "invoice price" paid by the distributers in other countries. Plus, the amount of litigation exposure in the US is infinitely more than in other countries. All prices being the same, there is a lot of brain damage doing business in the US.
To bring this full circle, when you have a commission number in V70 status, it only means your dealer is cooperating with PCNA's wishes that all dealers input their demand in PVMS. This aggregate demand is used to show Germany that they should direct more GT allocations to the US, rather than, say, Canada or Singapore or wherever. If you have a commission number in V200 status, you've got a real allocation.
It's all about the benjamins....
04-03-2017, 05:30 PM
#998
04-03-2017, 06:05 PM
#999
No you don't.
04-03-2017, 06:10 PM
#1000
So, I just received an email ( it was fittingly in my junk folder) from the sales MGR at a dealer in the DC area - others may have also received this message. I don't recall contacting this dealer in the past but may have when searching for a Gt4 allocation.
His message said - we have 3 available allocations contact us ASAP - July, Oct, Dec.
Expecting a market adjustment I called to see how much - without hesitation he said msrp +60 - I asked if there was any flexibility and he said no - apparently the west coast doesn't have a monopoly on unscrupulous dealers.....
His message said - we have 3 available allocations contact us ASAP - July, Oct, Dec.
Expecting a market adjustment I called to see how much - without hesitation he said msrp +60 - I asked if there was any flexibility and he said no - apparently the west coast doesn't have a monopoly on unscrupulous dealers.....
04-03-2017, 06:12 PM
#1001
Drifting
04-03-2017, 06:12 PM
#1002
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I understand what you are saying, but here is the dilemma for someone like me, and many others.
Take away the following people from the purchasing market:
1. 918
2. VVIP
3. People who purchase 1 Porsche (or more or less) per year
4. People who have no issue paying any amount over MSRP
Where does that leave the rest of the people? People who love the brand, who love the GT model, who don't fall into any of the above 4 categories. How are they realistically going to get a GT car for MSRP? Dealers are currently turning people away as the lists are too long. Dealers are raising their market premium as the demand is too high. There are potentially 3 GT variants that may share the production line (GT3, RS, GT2RS) that could result in overall decreased production for each model.
If the answer is "Too bad for you if you don't fall in any of those categories. Either make a change so you do fall into a category, wait and hope that production increases or demand decreases or buy it used in the secondary market" then I am ok with that. What would help is if the dealers just stopped taking deposits because there is this waiting game fueled by false optimism mixed with misinformation combined with huge demand that creates premiums.
Mass,
I agree with you. I'm on the same boat. I'd even add that many dealers don't take deposits which even makes it worse, cause then it's based on your numbers 1-4. One that I thought and still hope I'm number 3 at returned my deposit last year and said you'll still be on the list in the same position. Been bugging the hell out of them, and still no word on allocations.
I agree with you. I'm on the same boat. I'd even add that many dealers don't take deposits which even makes it worse, cause then it's based on your numbers 1-4. One that I thought and still hope I'm number 3 at returned my deposit last year and said you'll still be on the list in the same position. Been bugging the hell out of them, and still no word on allocations.
I understand your concern, but unfortunately there isn't a solution to this. I know every time a new GT model comes out, people will try to speculate and argue over the same thing again. The only way to really solve the problem is if Porsche double or triples the GT car production, or Porsche raises the MSRP by 50-70k$.
I would love to buy a limited Ferrari like F12 TDF, Speciale, LaFerrari even tho I've put my name and deposit down 10 years ago. I would love to go see Mayweather's boxing match floor seats at MSRP $1000 since I've put myself on a list instead of $5000. I would love to buy Romanee Conti current release Burgundy at MSRP instead of 13k$ per bottle. I also wanted to own a part of snapchat at their IPO at snapchat's and bank's suggested IPO market price. Unfortunately I also got denied for these lists even if I put myself on a list. Its really happening in many different industries. Like you, I love those brands and the product they provide and only want to pay MSRP but market forces prevail.
Lets say if PCNA sends a decree that all dealers cannot sell any car over MSRP, then a few things would happen. In the case if dealers don't take a physical list, there will still be a list. There's always a list because a dealer is not going to get 50 cars in half year, but more like 2-6 cars, and I am sure the GM or GSM of a dealer can at least remember 2-6 important people in their heads, whether consciously or unconsciously. So when the car comes, they will literally just pick and choose 2-6 people that they want to sell to. If a dealer does take a list and Porsche also says you have to go down the list in order, then the list will be crazy. If I know the next 911R 10 years from now they are going to make only 911 units, I would put a deposit now, especially since its refundable. What you'll end up getting is the more wealthy people can literally put 15k deposit on every single GT car for the next 30 years. Why not? If I had the money I would. You'll be 40-100 people on every list for cars 5-10 years out. Only the people who can afford to put deposits for 5-10 years on multiple cars will end up getting them. The market will prevail because doesn't matter who buys it at MSRP, there will always be people who be willing to pay over, since you can't pay over, the used car prices of cars "brand new" will be over sticker, so why would you not guarantee a spot 5 years from now that'll be worth 50-70k over MSRP. Sure some cars will be worth only 10-20k more, but it'll be worth more regardless.
Some people are luckier than others no doubt. You can say people in the Midwest are luckier than people in California because its much higher chance of buying cars at MSRP. What about the rest of the world to California? Are you all luckier than people in China, Singapore, whose MSRP of GT3 is 310k USD? Its the same exact car right? Do you feel they're obligated to pay more because they have double the salary? Not quite. They are simply located in a different geographic location just like Midwest people are located in a different geographic location than California. Again, century old argument, what is MSRP? suggested retail price. Do you feel more comfortable buying a 310k MSRP GT3 in China than to pay 30k over 150k GT3 in US because you are buying at the MSRP? Lets say, hypothetically, Porsche lists GT3 at 180k MSRP, would you buy it at MSRP? What about 199k? What about 240k? At what point would you say, I rather pay over on a low MSRP car than pay higher MSRP? Now lets reverse the roll, What if PCNA starts lowering the MSRP? at 110k GT3, would you pay 30k over? No? What about 90k? 60k? At what point would you pay 30k over for a GT3? Never?
You may say the MSRP is logical and Porsche designed the car to be meant to be sold at that price, but I'm sorry it realty isn't. PCNA and PAG sets the price of the car from the marketing department. There is no bigger marketing force than to create a huge hype and letting tens of thousands of fans hook onto it and always want a glimmer of hope of getting one. The pricing is strategic, corporations do it all the time, I rather make 30k less profit per car, but to me 30k X 2000 cars I make is actually a pretty cheap marketing cost for creating this enormous hype, and I just write it off on the marketing department. They are unfortunately letting the dealers become to the culprit. If you feed a pack of wolves with only a piece of meat, they will fight for it and they will be greedy, its nature. Porsche can increase the MSRP of GT cars by 70k, and the market and demand will be more balanced out, but now people will say now PAG is the vampire and greedy company, so best to let someone else take the fall. For the same reason of the hype, they will not build twice or three times as many GT cars. Can they build another GT department factory? yes. Can they hire another GT department team? yes. The hype of the pinnacle GT cars are passed down to other models. I've seen too many people settle for Carrera GTS, Carrera S, or Cayman GTS because they couldn't get the GT cars, and wins for Porsche.
Just some food for thoughts!
04-03-2017, 06:15 PM
#1003
04-03-2017, 06:21 PM
#1004
Drifting
04-03-2017, 06:25 PM
#1005
Banned
The sad thing is this entire thread is just the same replay from .1 GT3, GT4, .1 GT3RS.....
Bottom line until people with more money than sense stop paying over it will continue. Everyone always wants to be first at C&C.
Just start the .2 GT3RS, GT2RS and GT4RS threads now so we can copy and paste our comments in them all. Far more efficient this way.
Oh yeah and health care is not free, if you think it is you are a fool.
Bottom line until people with more money than sense stop paying over it will continue. Everyone always wants to be first at C&C.
Just start the .2 GT3RS, GT2RS and GT4RS threads now so we can copy and paste our comments in them all. Far more efficient this way.
Oh yeah and health care is not free, if you think it is you are a fool.