Consolidated 991RS thread
01-17-2015, 09:25 PM
#3451
Drifting
Not sure that the 4.0 is the correct comparison, if you compare it to the previous GT3 to GT3 RS it's a much bigger jump than the GT3:
997.2 GT3 439 hp to 991 GT3 475 hp (36 hp increase)
997.2 GT3 RS 450 hp to 991 GT3 RS 500 hp (50 hp increase)
I suspect the comments on it being more extreme relate to the reworked suspension (991 GT3 is pretty soft imo), increased downforce, significant weight savings, cooling etc, not to just a hp increase. Would trade all of these for hp anyday.
997.2 GT3 439 hp to 991 GT3 475 hp (36 hp increase)
997.2 GT3 RS 450 hp to 991 GT3 RS 500 hp (50 hp increase)
I suspect the comments on it being more extreme relate to the reworked suspension (991 GT3 is pretty soft imo), increased downforce, significant weight savings, cooling etc, not to just a hp increase. Would trade all of these for hp anyday.
I had the same question. The new RS will be 4.0 as well so how could it be 500HP again if they already produced the .2 RS 4.0 with 500 ponies? What are we missing here?
01-17-2015, 09:53 PM
#3452
I agree and it will be closer to 525hp. 4.0 with Metzger already produced 500hp. 991 engines already did make more HP than previous generation; thus a 4.0 based on 991 engine will make more hp than 4.0 based on Metzger. Just my $0.02....
Kevin.
Kevin.
01-18-2015, 02:14 AM
#3453
Via Top Gear:
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/p...rbo-2015-01-16
The turbocharger continues its march across some of our most cherished engines. The next batch of Porsche 911s will get blowers for the mainstream models, Porsche's engineering chief Wolfgang Hatz told us at the Detroit show.
"You have to respect legal requirements [for lower CO2], so yes we're thinking turbos for standard 911s. You can't afford to keep an engine for 10 years any more."
He had earlier explained that the new 911 GT3 RS, which will be launched in March at the Geneva show, features an all-new very powerful naturally aspirated engine. A version of that engine, with turbos but less power, strangely, will be what's in the facelifted 911s in 2016.
"Emissions are important for us," said Hatz, "And we will reduce faster than the industry. Every new model will have lower CO2 than before. There aren't so many technologies to do it. If you look at euro per g/km then it's turbo. Then at the end of the decade electrification has to be the next huge step." Does that mean a hybrid for the all-new 911? "Yes." With expertise from the 918 and 919 racer, Porsche is in a good position.
He also acknowledged that Porsche is developing a four-cylinder turbo for the Cayman and Boxster ranges from 2016. Is it a flat four? "It's not an in-line four or a V4." Will it go into the 911? "Never. That's always a flat six." Phew.
Again in pursuit of better economy and performance, Hatz said Porsche is working on an all-new V8 for the next generation of Cayenne and Panamera. These cars also have to get lighter. He said the objective for the next Cayenne V6 is under two tonnes, even though it will add equipment. At the moment it's nearly 2100kg.
But you don't want to know about base-model SUVs, you want to know about hot semi-racers.
He confirmed there is a Cayman GT4 coming this year. He said it's developed by the motorsport department who do the GT versions of the 911. It will have about 400bhp, and be usefully lighter than a standard car. It's more hardcore than the old Cayman R, he said, and is "for customers who want an entry race car."
And the 911 GT3 RS will be at the Geneva show. Hatz said the existing GT3 surprised people by how civilised it is. He says the GT3 RS is a bigger jump from the GT3 than there was in the 997-generation GT3 to GT3 RS. So we're looking at a pretty rabid car.
But if that's not enough, what about people who want more: a GT2 with turbos? "We have so many 911 variants," - this was minutes after they'd launched the Targa 4 GTS - "but customers do ask for a GT2, and we will decide."
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/p...rbo-2015-01-16
The turbocharger continues its march across some of our most cherished engines. The next batch of Porsche 911s will get blowers for the mainstream models, Porsche's engineering chief Wolfgang Hatz told us at the Detroit show.
"You have to respect legal requirements [for lower CO2], so yes we're thinking turbos for standard 911s. You can't afford to keep an engine for 10 years any more."
He had earlier explained that the new 911 GT3 RS, which will be launched in March at the Geneva show, features an all-new very powerful naturally aspirated engine. A version of that engine, with turbos but less power, strangely, will be what's in the facelifted 911s in 2016.
"Emissions are important for us," said Hatz, "And we will reduce faster than the industry. Every new model will have lower CO2 than before. There aren't so many technologies to do it. If you look at euro per g/km then it's turbo. Then at the end of the decade electrification has to be the next huge step." Does that mean a hybrid for the all-new 911? "Yes." With expertise from the 918 and 919 racer, Porsche is in a good position.
He also acknowledged that Porsche is developing a four-cylinder turbo for the Cayman and Boxster ranges from 2016. Is it a flat four? "It's not an in-line four or a V4." Will it go into the 911? "Never. That's always a flat six." Phew.
Again in pursuit of better economy and performance, Hatz said Porsche is working on an all-new V8 for the next generation of Cayenne and Panamera. These cars also have to get lighter. He said the objective for the next Cayenne V6 is under two tonnes, even though it will add equipment. At the moment it's nearly 2100kg.
But you don't want to know about base-model SUVs, you want to know about hot semi-racers.
He confirmed there is a Cayman GT4 coming this year. He said it's developed by the motorsport department who do the GT versions of the 911. It will have about 400bhp, and be usefully lighter than a standard car. It's more hardcore than the old Cayman R, he said, and is "for customers who want an entry race car."
And the 911 GT3 RS will be at the Geneva show. Hatz said the existing GT3 surprised people by how civilised it is. He says the GT3 RS is a bigger jump from the GT3 than there was in the 997-generation GT3 to GT3 RS. So we're looking at a pretty rabid car.
But if that's not enough, what about people who want more: a GT2 with turbos? "We have so many 911 variants," - this was minutes after they'd launched the Targa 4 GTS - "but customers do ask for a GT2, and we will decide."
01-18-2015, 03:17 AM
#3454
Race Director
I haven't examined the PET. I do know that according to the EVO interview with AP and other sources only the cylinder head bolts, timing chains, alternator, and raw crankcase (the machined crankcase is different) are supposedly common between the Carrera 9A1 and the GT3 9A1. Regardless of the actual number of parts, I think it's fair to say that the engine in the GT3 is different in almost every important way from the Carrera engine, which to my mind makes it less likely that just one year on we'll see another complete redo. If I'm wrong, we'll know soon.....
01-18-2015, 03:39 AM
#3455
I haven't examined the PET. I do know that according to the EVO interview with AP and other sources only the cylinder head bolts, timing chains, alternator, and raw crankcase (the machined crankcase is different) are supposedly common between the Carrera 9A1 and the GT3 9A1. Regardless of the actual number of parts, I think it's fair to say that the engine in the GT3 is different in almost every important way from the Carrera engine.
The percentage difference is a matter of opinion, but looking it over far more is shared with the Carrera/ Cayman/ Boxster of six years ago than I was expecting. Suggesting only 4 parts are shared is false, but the concept (four areas with entirely identical parts) might be closer to accurate.
I would say that "different in almost every important way" is an overstatement, but I'll try and post images so you can judge for yourself...
01-18-2015, 04:15 AM
#3456
Race Director
Lol. I'll try and post a comparison. The architecture is shared, many more than four parts are identical, despite which the majority of parts have new part numbers. Looking at them you'd often be hard pressed to tell them apart, but the critical ones (rods, pistons, etc) will have metallurgy changes that are not obvious to the eye.
The percentage difference is a matter of opinion, but looking it over far more is shared with the Carrera/ Cayman/ Boxster of six years ago than I was expecting. Suggesting only 4 parts are shared is false, but the concept (four areas with entirely identical parts) might be closer to accurate.
I would say that "different in almost every important way" is an overstatement, but I'll try and post images so you can judge for yourself...
The percentage difference is a matter of opinion, but looking it over far more is shared with the Carrera/ Cayman/ Boxster of six years ago than I was expecting. Suggesting only 4 parts are shared is false, but the concept (four areas with entirely identical parts) might be closer to accurate.
I would say that "different in almost every important way" is an overstatement, but I'll try and post images so you can judge for yourself...
new cylinder heads
new valve train
forged pistons and titanium rods
two radially-driven high pressure fuel pump versus one axially driven pump
much higher RPM due to lower rotational mass throughout the drivetrain
dry sump lubrication and new oil pan
additional piston oil spray injector
two additional oil extraction points in sump
oil wiper
relocation of oil/water heat exchanger and filter to bottom of the engine
new intake system
higher fuel injection pressures (200 bar versus 120 bar)
different injectors
Within the context of a flat six, that seems like a pretty inclusive list. If we're talking about going to a different configuration altogether, then that's another matter. Maybe I shouldn't have quoted the guy who headed up the project as it may just have been a sales job on his part.
I think we started by discussing how much different from the GT3 the new RS engine would be. Numbers of common parts or changed parts numbers aside, I don't believe the RS engine will be radically different. Others do. We'll see.
01-18-2015, 01:33 PM
#3460
Rennlist Member
On the bright side, if the GT3 9a1 is a one off motor from Porsche, with as much praise and awards it received, it will be sought after. Seems crazy from a marketing standpoint to have a car get so many accolades from various magazines, then dump it. The motor is the most exciting features of the package.
01-18-2015, 05:17 PM
#3461
Drifting
On the bright side, if the GT3 9a1 is a one off motor from Porsche, with as much praise and awards it received, it will be sought after. Seems crazy from a marketing standpoint to have a car get so many accolades from various magazines, then dump it. The motor is the most exciting features of the package.
If it's a one-off it will be remembered as (1) the one that the factory never raced and (2) the one that caught on fire, necessitating an extraordinarily embarrassing recall and stop sale campaign. Not so good for value down the line. Imagine if the RS and the .2 facelift cars have an engine shared with the race car; which one do you think would fetch more money at Pebble in a few decades?
01-18-2015, 05:42 PM
#3462
Rennlist Member
What? If it's a one-off it will be remembered as (1) the one that the factory never raced and (2) the one that caught on fire, necessitating an extraordinarily embarrassing recall and stop sale campaign. Not so good for value down the line. Imagine if the RS and the .2 facelift cars have an engine shared with the race car; which one do you think would fetch more money at Pebble in a few decades?
01-18-2015, 05:52 PM
#3464
I hate to br negative but the RS is starting to sound like "Bold New Graphics" over a GT3. Really, 25hp? You would never feel 5 percent. I sure it will have a firmer suspension but 60k more?
If all it has is bigger spoilers and 25hp I am out.
If all it has is bigger spoilers and 25hp I am out.