The 991 GT3/RS Cars For Sale Thread...
10-10-2022, 10:40 AM
#5701
Similarly, been trying to convince Miami Beach property owners that the real estate collapse is coming for them, very specifically. Better sell now at ½ list. No luck, so far.
More seriously… exchanged with a high-end dealer sales mgr not long ago. They're confident in the sustained value of GT3/RS relative to most other luxury autos. Willing to cut recession deals in some spaces, but GT3 will be one of the last. Also cited likely 992 RS values.
In his words, they're "trying to move the POS's." (GT3 wasn't in that category.)
My personal favorite automotive Armageddon prediction is shaping up nicely, though -- 500 Urus listed on cars.com as of this a.m. But cheapest one with <10,000 mls still in the 230's.
Compare to fewer than 100 RS's of every gen.
Whether you're an individual auto enthusiast or dealer with inventory, which one are you holding through a downturn again? The rebadged Audi in the mid-200's over the .2 RS?
The following users liked this post:
Randy M (10-10-2022)
10-10-2022, 11:24 AM
#5702
Does seem curiously GT3-specific sometimes, doesn't it? Like, the downfall will disproportionately affect what is obviously one of the greatest cars ever created.
Similarly, been trying to convince Miami Beach property owners that the real estate collapse is coming for them, very specifically. Better sell now at ½ list. No luck, so far.
More seriously… exchanged with a high-end dealer sales mgr not long ago. They're confident in the sustained value of GT3/RS relative to most other luxury autos. Willing to cut recession deals in some spaces, but GT3 will be one of the last. Also cited likely 992 RS values.
In his words, they're "trying to move the POS's." (GT3 wasn't in that category.)
My personal favorite automotive Armageddon prediction is shaping up nicely, though -- 500 Urus listed on cars.com as of this a.m. But cheapest one with <10,000 mls still in the 230's.
Compare to fewer than 100 RS's of every gen.
Whether you're an individual auto enthusiast or dealer with inventory, which one are you holding through a downturn again? The rebadged Audi in the mid-200's over the .2 RS?
Similarly, been trying to convince Miami Beach property owners that the real estate collapse is coming for them, very specifically. Better sell now at ½ list. No luck, so far.
More seriously… exchanged with a high-end dealer sales mgr not long ago. They're confident in the sustained value of GT3/RS relative to most other luxury autos. Willing to cut recession deals in some spaces, but GT3 will be one of the last. Also cited likely 992 RS values.
In his words, they're "trying to move the POS's." (GT3 wasn't in that category.)
My personal favorite automotive Armageddon prediction is shaping up nicely, though -- 500 Urus listed on cars.com as of this a.m. But cheapest one with <10,000 mls still in the 230's.
Compare to fewer than 100 RS's of every gen.
Whether you're an individual auto enthusiast or dealer with inventory, which one are you holding through a downturn again? The rebadged Audi in the mid-200's over the .2 RS?
Anyone reading this forum will agree with you on the desirability - both relative and absolute - of RS models over "designer accessories" like the Urus.
The broader microeconomics are the fascinating bit. Everyone with assets has been enjoying significant appreciation over the past two years. Luxury goods benefited disproportionally, and attracted a number of buyers seeking extraordinary returns from constrained supply and spiky demand. Get your name down on a GT3, a Urus, even a Corvette, and pocket tens of thousands.
That works so long as supply constraints and heated demand remain in place. At this stage, inventory levels suggest that supply constraints are not exactly there anymore (149 992 GT3s, 500 Urus, etc). And overall demand is cooling off at aggregate level due to increased cost of credit and more cautious outlook - though granted this isn't impacting the cashed-up segment as much, perhaps.
Now, everyone who got a 992 GT3 in the hope of a rapid, profitable flip really, really wants to sell it at the prices we were seeing 6 months ago. That Miami condo owner is the same. Their expectations will take some time to adjust. It took 18 months for the adjustment to wash through markets in 2008/09, I imagine it will take a while this time around, too.
In that context, I expect that genuine classics will fare better than new cars. But I can't help but think that the broader forces at play here mean a correction is in the air. No Schadenfreude, except for some remarkably arrogant dealers whose time will come, I hope.
The following 3 users liked this post by Longi:
10-10-2022, 12:31 PM
#5703
Anyone reading this forum will agree with you on the desirability - both relative and absolute - of RS models over "designer accessories" like the Urus.
The broader microeconomics are the fascinating bit. Everyone with assets has been enjoying significant appreciation over the past two years. Luxury goods benefited disproportionally, and attracted a number of buyers seeking extraordinary returns from constrained supply and spiky demand. Get your name down on a GT3, a Urus, even a Corvette, and pocket tens of thousands.
That works so long as supply constraints and heated demand remain in place. At this stage, inventory levels suggest that supply constraints are not exactly there anymore (149 992 GT3s, 500 Urus, etc). And overall demand is cooling off at aggregate level due to increased cost of credit and more cautious outlook - though granted this isn't impacting the cashed-up segment as much, perhaps.
Now, everyone who got a 992 GT3 in the hope of a rapid, profitable flip really, really wants to sell it at the prices we were seeing 6 months ago. That Miami condo owner is the same. Their expectations will take some time to adjust. It took 18 months for the adjustment to wash through markets in 2008/09, I imagine it will take a while this time around, too.
In that context, I expect that genuine classics will fare better than new cars. But I can't help but think that the broader forces at play here mean a correction is in the air. No Schadenfreude, except for some remarkably arrogant dealers whose time will come, I hope.
The broader microeconomics are the fascinating bit. Everyone with assets has been enjoying significant appreciation over the past two years. Luxury goods benefited disproportionally, and attracted a number of buyers seeking extraordinary returns from constrained supply and spiky demand. Get your name down on a GT3, a Urus, even a Corvette, and pocket tens of thousands.
That works so long as supply constraints and heated demand remain in place. At this stage, inventory levels suggest that supply constraints are not exactly there anymore (149 992 GT3s, 500 Urus, etc). And overall demand is cooling off at aggregate level due to increased cost of credit and more cautious outlook - though granted this isn't impacting the cashed-up segment as much, perhaps.
Now, everyone who got a 992 GT3 in the hope of a rapid, profitable flip really, really wants to sell it at the prices we were seeing 6 months ago. That Miami condo owner is the same. Their expectations will take some time to adjust. It took 18 months for the adjustment to wash through markets in 2008/09, I imagine it will take a while this time around, too.
In that context, I expect that genuine classics will fare better than new cars. But I can't help but think that the broader forces at play here mean a correction is in the air. No Schadenfreude, except for some remarkably arrogant dealers whose time will come, I hope.
That's why I'm a 991 buyer at current prices. The absolute and relative value/ownership experience is all there for the $. And so long as real or synthetic fuels are pumping, long-term desirability is a certainty.
As I've said before, don't blame anyone for anticipating lower prices, holding out for a deal. That very well may pay off in the near-term. Frankly, I don't care what happens to values near-term, and I hope that more get into enthusiast hands.
Many dealers just think prospective 991 buyers will blink first. And it won't take many blinks to fundamentally reshape the supply/demand dynamic. I've seen this happen with performance autos far less desirable than the GT3.
The following 2 users liked this post by ParadiseGT3:
GT3 Mike (10-10-2022),
neoprufrok (10-10-2022)
10-10-2022, 02:05 PM
#5704
There may be no other luxury car out there that is as poised for as dramatic a re-pricing as an Urus lol
The following 3 users liked this post by maroli:
10-10-2022, 02:25 PM
#5705
Does seem curiously GT3-specific sometimes, doesn't it? Like, the downfall will disproportionately affect what is obviously one of the greatest cars ever created.
Similarly, been trying to convince Miami Beach property owners that the real estate collapse is coming for them, very specifically. Better sell now at ½ list. No luck, so far.
More seriously… exchanged with a high-end dealer sales mgr not long ago. They're confident in the sustained value of GT3/RS relative to most other luxury autos. Willing to cut recession deals in some spaces, but GT3 will be one of the last. Also cited likely 992 RS values.
In his words, they're "trying to move the POS's." (GT3 wasn't in that category.)
My personal favorite automotive Armageddon prediction is shaping up nicely, though -- 500 Urus listed on cars.com as of this a.m. But cheapest one with <10,000 mls still in the 230's.
Compare to fewer than 100 RS's of every gen.
Whether you're an individual auto enthusiast or dealer with inventory, which one are you holding through a downturn again? The rebadged Audi in the mid-200's over the .2 RS?
Similarly, been trying to convince Miami Beach property owners that the real estate collapse is coming for them, very specifically. Better sell now at ½ list. No luck, so far.
More seriously… exchanged with a high-end dealer sales mgr not long ago. They're confident in the sustained value of GT3/RS relative to most other luxury autos. Willing to cut recession deals in some spaces, but GT3 will be one of the last. Also cited likely 992 RS values.
In his words, they're "trying to move the POS's." (GT3 wasn't in that category.)
My personal favorite automotive Armageddon prediction is shaping up nicely, though -- 500 Urus listed on cars.com as of this a.m. But cheapest one with <10,000 mls still in the 230's.
Compare to fewer than 100 RS's of every gen.
Whether you're an individual auto enthusiast or dealer with inventory, which one are you holding through a downturn again? The rebadged Audi in the mid-200's over the .2 RS?
The following 2 users liked this post by mnawa:
GT3 Mike (10-10-2022),
welikethetrack (10-10-2022)
10-10-2022, 02:43 PM
#5706
Anyone reading this forum will agree with you on the desirability - both relative and absolute - of RS models over "designer accessories" like the Urus.
The broader microeconomics are the fascinating bit. Everyone with assets has been enjoying significant appreciation over the past two years. Luxury goods benefited disproportionally, and attracted a number of buyers seeking extraordinary returns from constrained supply and spiky demand. Get your name down on a GT3, a Urus, even a Corvette, and pocket tens of thousands.
That works so long as supply constraints and heated demand remain in place. At this stage, inventory levels suggest that supply constraints are not exactly there anymore (149 992 GT3s, 500 Urus, etc). And overall demand is cooling off at aggregate level due to increased cost of credit and more cautious outlook - though granted this isn't impacting the cashed-up segment as much, perhaps.
Now, everyone who got a 992 GT3 in the hope of a rapid, profitable flip really, really wants to sell it at the prices we were seeing 6 months ago. That Miami condo owner is the same. Their expectations will take some time to adjust. It took 18 months for the adjustment to wash through markets in 2008/09, I imagine it will take a while this time around, too.
In that context, I expect that genuine classics will fare better than new cars. But I can't help but think that the broader forces at play here mean a correction is in the air. No Schadenfreude, except for some remarkably arrogant dealers whose time will come, I hope.
The broader microeconomics are the fascinating bit. Everyone with assets has been enjoying significant appreciation over the past two years. Luxury goods benefited disproportionally, and attracted a number of buyers seeking extraordinary returns from constrained supply and spiky demand. Get your name down on a GT3, a Urus, even a Corvette, and pocket tens of thousands.
That works so long as supply constraints and heated demand remain in place. At this stage, inventory levels suggest that supply constraints are not exactly there anymore (149 992 GT3s, 500 Urus, etc). And overall demand is cooling off at aggregate level due to increased cost of credit and more cautious outlook - though granted this isn't impacting the cashed-up segment as much, perhaps.
Now, everyone who got a 992 GT3 in the hope of a rapid, profitable flip really, really wants to sell it at the prices we were seeing 6 months ago. That Miami condo owner is the same. Their expectations will take some time to adjust. It took 18 months for the adjustment to wash through markets in 2008/09, I imagine it will take a while this time around, too.
In that context, I expect that genuine classics will fare better than new cars. But I can't help but think that the broader forces at play here mean a correction is in the air. No Schadenfreude, except for some remarkably arrogant dealers whose time will come, I hope.
10-10-2022, 03:00 PM
#5707
The following 3 users liked this post by rk-d:
10-10-2022, 03:10 PM
#5708
Speaking of honesty, I wonder how many prospective owners who are expecting maximum negotiability from dealers right now would budge more than 5-10k on a resale.
10-10-2022, 03:51 PM
#5709
I was actually going to add 'other than maybe G wagons' but don't keep up to date with the SUV market - I had a feeling it would crash because I knew someone who ordered multiple G Wagens just to hoard and flip which is behaviour that should be very familiar to anyone who lived through an asset bubble before.
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GT3 Mike (10-10-2022)
10-10-2022, 04:26 PM
#5710
Rennlist Member
It is also irritating that a significant portion of deliveries this year were not to enthusiasts, but to people hoping to make a quick buck - while a large number of enthusiasts and Porsche loyalists were unable to buy a car. This must hurt at some level.
Let it collapse and burn, I say.
Let it collapse and burn, I say.
10-10-2022, 04:28 PM
#5711
I was actually going to add 'other than maybe G wagons' but don't keep up to date with the SUV market - I had a feeling it would crash because I knew someone who ordered multiple G Wagens just to hoard and flip which is behaviour that should be very familiar to anyone who lived through an asset bubble before.
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maroli (10-10-2022)
10-10-2022, 04:45 PM
#5712
Mike, what's your number, MSRP or under? Lots of fuzzy downward value speculation in this thread, where's a real buyer waiting?
10-10-2022, 04:59 PM
#5713
Burning Brakes
@GT3 mike and Longi....that is exactly why the market is collapsing and will for awhile.
It is all these cheap @ss carsandcoffe crowd people that don't actually want the car, but they hear GT cars never depreciate!!! Well.....I know where that sentiment ends up every time.
Once the cheap @sses (like the last 992gt3 on BAT who was in over his head as he stated) head for the hills when they see the values drop.....there will be a dumb amount of GT's for sale (already are way too many for sale, but the dealers are trying to hold prices up as long as they can lol)
Then you will have to pick from these (When they are all rare.....what is really rare?):
996.Gt3
997.1gt3
997.1gt3rs
997.2gt3
997.2 gt3rs
997.gt3rs 4.0
991.1 Gt3
991.1gt3rs
991.1 911r
991.2gt3
991.2 gt3rs
991.2 speedster
992.1 Gt3
992.1 gt3rs
I myself will be going Gt4rs next
It is all these cheap @ss carsandcoffe crowd people that don't actually want the car, but they hear GT cars never depreciate!!! Well.....I know where that sentiment ends up every time.
Once the cheap @sses (like the last 992gt3 on BAT who was in over his head as he stated) head for the hills when they see the values drop.....there will be a dumb amount of GT's for sale (already are way too many for sale, but the dealers are trying to hold prices up as long as they can lol)
Then you will have to pick from these (When they are all rare.....what is really rare?):
996.Gt3
997.1gt3
997.1gt3rs
997.2gt3
997.2 gt3rs
997.gt3rs 4.0
991.1 Gt3
991.1gt3rs
991.1 911r
991.2gt3
991.2 gt3rs
991.2 speedster
992.1 Gt3
992.1 gt3rs
I myself will be going Gt4rs next
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GT3 Mike (10-10-2022),
porscheflat6 (10-10-2022)
10-10-2022, 05:09 PM
#5714
Rennlist Member
I would say if you took away the Covid pump, standard depreciation from 2019. I've waited this long.. I have no problem waiting longer until the blood is thoroughly running in the streets.