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Sorry, I don't think there is any such thing as "fully sorted". There is always something needs doing and even if you just did a 2 year full resto, there is the 1000 mile "b!itch list".
Thanks guys for your contributions for my dilemma earlier. I have been wondering why the white RS has been for sale for so long. About 6 months before it was at Merit Partners, it was at European Collectibles for a good amount of time. I have seen the blue car in person and it looked ok. Though I remember it being for sale a year ago on Rennlist and the seller was very transparent about the car. I think the white one is the better of the two, but would need to see it in the flesh to be sure. But I am in no hurry and am willing to wait for the right car as this would be a long term keeper (possibly forever). There is a Guards Red one with 9k miles for $450k firm, but I think that is just too much.
It all depends on timing and who is bidding or buying. I was offered $600k for my 3.6T this summer at the Bridge in the Hampton's . I thought the seller was nuts for even offering so much. He had quite the collection of cars. But later found out his girlfriend wanted it so he went right for the jugular figuring I wouldn't say no. After she asked if she could drive it in her stilettos that killed the deal for me as I really have no interest in selling. The car is flawless and in a unique color I can never replace the combo since it is one of one. After I turned the offer down the gentleman said he thought I made the right move as he thinks it will be worth more in the future. Who am I to argue with someone who owns over $100M in cars and has my dream collection. Just recently a so so in comparison 3.6T sold for $334k. A year ago that car wouldn't have been able to bring $200k. I guess that shows where things are heading. The worst part is he has more great projects people are begging him to do and he has no choice but to turn them away.
We lived through 02M2's transformation of his car and all the aggravation and angst he had to go through to get it where it is. I do agree even I am having delays and problems getting my slick top project done. Parts constantly come in wrong or are delayed for months and even with one of the better shops around owned by a good friend he is so backed up I have to go and help him so he can find the time to get my parts done. He has even bigger supply chain issues which only congests the shop and between covid delays and lack of workforce willing to work it is hard for him to get the small stuff completed. No fault of his own but the world we live in.
I for one don't see where this is all heading but the train keeps rolling and prices have gotten a bit ludicrous IMO. Although as we have been saying there are very few remaining in good condition and everyone wants one so Demand seems to be trumping supply.
I do agree with @misterbeverlyhills . I have spent thousands of hours going over every square inch of my 93 C2 which was a rather pristine example before I started. There was a time removing a sunroof and modifying a car like these detracted from the value. I remember some very nice 3.6T's that sat for years back in the early 2000's because they had modifications selling at far less than an untouched version with far more miles. Today we have so many different interests and if the color and options move a buyer they seem to be interested in paying up for it irrespective of others opinions. I suspect if 02M2's car needs anything it is minor but there is always something considering the age of the basic parts and the complexity of the design. Anything can break at any moment it is the nature of the beast.
At 60k miles my C2 will be basically like new to my tastes but my problem is finding the right value to put on it for insurance. I love doing projects but I wouldn't want to do this one over again. Nor would I looking back at how clean my car was before I started compared to most I see.
IMO this US spec cup car will be one of those cars I let get away. One of 4 parts cars it has such a story to tell that not many 964's can. The bigger the story the larger the price tag it seems to be. these days. Although this is becoming more of a collectors car than a drivers car at these prices.
Don't forget we have Mike's Bad Boys Turbo coming up for sale. It is a shame this turbos auction didn't start a few days later. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-911-turbo-34/ I suspect the BB car will bring strong money although IMO Gooding Amelia would have been a better platform. They have some stunning examples of rare 964's for sale this year. It is possible the BB car will set new records so where does that leave the rest?
Happy to see the car made it down to Kissimmee in one piece after the nightmare of a truck ride getting stuck in Virginia snowstorm and then truck malfunction it was sketchy there for a while.
I deleted Deb for you Mike. I know you said it was Ok to post pics of her but I didn't get permission from Management.
i'll be interested to see the Bad Boys transaction. the Risky 928 blew away expectations and i'd say this Turbo has almost the same level of movie cred.
I asked myself a similar question recently on how to present "a package" that would entertain an owner of an RS. I have been wanting a terminal 964...and one that my focus/energy/money could dial in and perfect in the years to come vs. the 96K mile 1993 C2 I have currently.
How tough is it....as a buyer/enthusiast/tuner myself....to compete with the stilettos? I mean 600k? Talk about a dangling carrot over the last few years. My goal was a 3.6 but that was when they were 200k and I was wondering if I could sell all of my cars and consolidate down to one. I have not quit the dream - I'd love a 3.6 or an RS, but have let go for now.
The problem is, it comes down to the cash.....I mean at the end of the day...does it matter - my worn shop boots or the stilettos? The more cash, the merrier for the seller. I sold my 911L to what I'd consider stilettos, but do I wish it went to a normal Joe that would have appreciated all of the work, tuning, adjusting, correcting that I put into the car? Absolutely.
But....how much less would I have taken....from the boots vs. the stilettos? 5%? 10%? 0%? Personally, I'd have taken 10% less knowing I made a pair of boots' dream come true. But, that's just me.
Does it matter to you guys who you sell the car to? I can say with 100% confidence that our cars are in the right hands....because day after day we are on these forums studying...bouncing ideas off each other...learning how to improve, perfect and correct our cars to a much better state, down to the washer. Would the stilettos ever appreciate or even care about the work and detail? But...what is that worth to us?
Sorry to derail the conversation a bit - but the ethical question I'm presenting is....when does greed outweigh empathy?
I asked myself a similar question recently on how to present "a package" that would entertain an owner of an RS. I have been wanting a terminal 964...and one that my focus/energy/money could dial in and perfect in the years to come vs. the 96K mile 1993 C2 I have currently.
How tough is it....as a buyer/enthusiast/tuner myself....to compete with the stilettos? I mean 600k? Talk about a dangling carrot over the last few years. My goal was a 3.6 but that was when they were 200k and I was wondering if I could sell all of my cars and consolidate down to one. I have not quit the dream - I'd love a 3.6 or an RS, but have let go for now.
The problem is, it comes down to the cash.....I mean at the end of the day...does it matter - my worn shop boots or the stilettos? The more cash, the merrier for the seller. I sold my 911L to what I'd consider stilettos, but do I wish it went to a normal Joe that would have appreciated all of the work, tuning, adjusting, correcting that I put into the car? Absolutely.
But....how much less would I have taken....from the boots vs. the stilettos? 5%? 10%? 0%? Personally, I'd have taken 10% less knowing I made a pair of boots' dream come true. But, that's just me.
Does it matter to you guys who you sell the car to? I can say with 100% confidence that our cars are in the right hands....because day after day we are on these forums studying...bouncing ideas off each other...learning how to improve, perfect and correct our cars to a much better state, down to the washer. Would the stilettos ever appreciate or even care about the work and detail? But...what is that worth to us?
Sorry to derail the conversation a bit - but the ethical question I'm presenting is....when does greed outweigh empathy?
I asked myself a similar question recently on how to present "a package" that would entertain an owner of an RS. I have been wanting a terminal 964...and one that my focus/energy/money could dial in and perfect in the years to come vs. the 96K mile 1993 C2 I have currently.
How tough is it....as a buyer/enthusiast/tuner myself....to compete with the stilettos? I mean 600k? Talk about a dangling carrot over the last few years. My goal was a 3.6 but that was when they were 200k and I was wondering if I could sell all of my cars and consolidate down to one. I have not quit the dream - I'd love a 3.6 or an RS, but have let go for now.
The problem is, it comes down to the cash.....I mean at the end of the day...does it matter - my worn shop boots or the stilettos? The more cash, the merrier for the seller. I sold my 911L to what I'd consider stilettos, but do I wish it went to a normal Joe that would have appreciated all of the work, tuning, adjusting, correcting that I put into the car? Absolutely.
But....how much less would I have taken....from the boots vs. the stilettos? 5%? 10%? 0%? Personally, I'd have taken 10% less knowing I made a pair of boots' dream come true. But, that's just me.
Does it matter to you guys who you sell the car to? I can say with 100% confidence that our cars are in the right hands....because day after day we are on these forums studying...bouncing ideas off each other...learning how to improve, perfect and correct our cars to a much better state, down to the washer. Would the stilettos ever appreciate or even care about the work and detail? But...what is that worth to us?
Sorry to derail the conversation a bit - but the ethical question I'm presenting is....when does greed outweigh empathy?
I owned a 74 3.0RS widebody clone (aka IROC) I imported in 1985 during the grey market. The car was amazing and I regret selling it. The engine was converted by Max Moritz himself using his design 3.2L P&C and everything balanced or as some say blueprinted. 270HP & high torque engine in a 2390 pound car no options all black lacquer paint and correct fuchs alloys. I pulled away from 930's off the line but at speed the turbo had a car length on me. The driving experience was the most connected I have ever had in any Porsche and the sound was amazing. When my son came along I sold off my 914's. The RS had no rear seats so my wife said it had to go. We agreed I could locate a 3.6T so long as it was not black, white, red or silver. Little did I know what a task that would be. A year plus later I finally located my cobalt blue. It is one of a kind in the US. In nearly 20 years of looking I located only one other in Japan and it was raced and beaten to hell and back. So if i want another I would probably have to settle on black, white, red or silver.
Funny my dream was to sell the turbo and buy a 3.8RS/RSR. Unfortunately they are between $1.5 and 2.5M so my turbo barely covers the down payment. Cheaper and easier for me to build a clone.
Back to the 3.0RS. I reluctantly sold the car after 19 years of ownership and got all the money for it at the time. A year later I was reading Excellence and someone was talking about their IROC RS and sourcing a damaged front bumper for $4k back in 2001. The parts on my car were factory. Suddenly the car tripled in value. Unfortunately by then the buyer had sold off the Fuchs, Installed A/C, tinted the windows black and installed some awful exhaust that hung down far too low looking stupid and sounded awful IMO. He asked me if I wanted the car back as I had first right of refusal. Values had jumped but I couldn't deal with the irreversible damage done to the car. Otherwise I would have taken it back in a heartbeat. Normally I say show me the money but when it comes to special cars I can't replace and I have owned for nearly 20 years I have a hard time letting them go knowing they won't be treated as I would. I agree today there are far more responsible owners but I still see many who don't have a clue, don't visit forums and are spending huge money on these. I wouldn't sell my cars to most of them as well especially if the car remains local to me. I guess this will become part of my estate and my son who will kill me if I sell will become the owner one day. He has been living at DE's AX and Concours events since he was 5 so no wonder he drives a 981CSM. He really wants my turbo, C2 or 928GTS but the CS is a better choice for him for now.
Don't get me wrong I am retired living on my retried mans salary so I don't have the resources I used to but what would I do with the money? I have no debt and everything I could want in life minus some things I couldn't afford then and can't come close to affording now. What would I buy that is better? I have driven most everything and I haven't found a car that interests me as much that I can afford. There are far faster and more capable cars but nothing comes close to the 3.6T experience.
I asked myself a similar question recently on how to present "a package" that would entertain an owner of an RS. I have been wanting a terminal 964...and one that my focus/energy/money could dial in and perfect in the years to come vs. the 96K mile 1993 C2 I have currently.
How tough is it....as a buyer/enthusiast/tuner myself....to compete with the stilettos? I mean 600k? Talk about a dangling carrot over the last few years. My goal was a 3.6 but that was when they were 200k and I was wondering if I could sell all of my cars and consolidate down to one. I have not quit the dream - I'd love a 3.6 or an RS, but have let go for now.
The problem is, it comes down to the cash.....I mean at the end of the day...does it matter - my worn shop boots or the stilettos? The more cash, the merrier for the seller. I sold my 911L to what I'd consider stilettos, but do I wish it went to a normal Joe that would have appreciated all of the work, tuning, adjusting, correcting that I put into the car? Absolutely.
But....how much less would I have taken....from the boots vs. the stilettos? 5%? 10%? 0%? Personally, I'd have taken 10% less knowing I made a pair of boots' dream come true. But, that's just me.
Does it matter to you guys who you sell the car to? I can say with 100% confidence that our cars are in the right hands....because day after day we are on these forums studying...bouncing ideas off each other...learning how to improve, perfect and correct our cars to a much better state, down to the washer. Would the stilettos ever appreciate or even care about the work and detail? But...what is that worth to us?
Sorry to derail the conversation a bit - but the ethical question I'm presenting is....when does greed outweigh empathy?
Sorry, but I'll I'm hearing from this is that you're sexist.
Nancy Sinatra wore boots. . . and in 2022 it isn't uncommon to see dudes in stilettos. /shrug
So you're telling me that if I show up with $125k cash to buy your car wearing stilettos you won't sell it to me, but if I send a lady friend in boots with $112.5k you will?
I'm not trying to derail this thread, I'm just genuinely trying to understand what you're saying. With so few of these cars actually floating around, we're at the point where each individual comp matters.
Not sure why this is so entertaining......but it appears to some that I need to explain further. Look, I am not aiming to be sexist or racist or whatever else people read into messages and decide to glean out of it. These are forums, I am just participating in discussions with whom I thought were like minded people. The original intent in my post was to understand where you all stood in regard to choosing who to sell your car to. IF and WHAT tugs at you when you are faced with a potential buyer? Is it cash alone? Are there perhaps other variables to the equation for you? That's all. Nothing more or less.
However, people read into things...read between the lines, possibly (not anyone's fault) take things out of context and that is ok too, which is why I don't mind explaining further.
For me, who I choose to sell (anything) to boils down to their attitudes and how they treat other people. That is more important to me than the money behind it all. I hope this makes sense. I apologize if my original post appeared to be biased towards one group over the other. The only group I am truly against are people who treat others poorly.
Not sure why this is so entertaining......but it appears to some that I need to explain further. Look, I am not aiming to be sexist or racist or whatever else people read into messages and decide to glean out of it. These are forums, I am just participating in discussions with whom I thought were like minded people. The original intent in my post was to understand where you all stood in regard to choosing who to sell your car to. IF and WHAT tugs at you when you are faced with a potential buyer? Is it cash alone? Are there perhaps other variables to the equation for you? That's all. Nothing more or less.
However, people read into things...read between the lines, possibly (not anyone's fault) take things out of context and that is ok too, which is why I don't mind explaining further.
For me, who I choose to sell (anything) to boils down to their attitudes and how they treat other people. That is more important to me than the money behind it all. I hope this makes sense. I apologize if my original post appeared to be biased towards one group over the other. The only group I am truly against are people who treat others poorly.
Thank you
Thanks for clarifying, and I now understand what you were saying. I have never once considered anything besides compensation & terms while buying/selling a car, and to my knowledge all my transactions in the Porsche sphere have been with others sharing a similar business first attitude: AKA "money talks, bull**** walks." I now know that not everyone looks at a purchase/sale so binary, so thank you.
One thing I would like to point out is that from my experience it's not uncommon to deal with "agents" instead of individuals when it comes to buying/selling certain cars. This is not always disclosed to the counterparty.
Sorry if you felt as though I attacked you and I'm glad we can move forward to appreciate these awesome cars!
01-07-2022, 05:29 PM
