Dubbed743

Personally I would rather have that car over any of these 3 other recent sales, at the same price:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-carrera-4-50/
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...11-carrera-53/ (This one is a better car, but IMO not an extra $18k better)
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-carrera-2-51/

Maybe I'm in the minority here?

cobalt

I am not sure how I missed the white one. When I first saw it I thought it was a car my sisters boyfriend had back in 1991. He had the same combo.

What I see is a series of cars that range IMO between a 6 and 7 out of 10 quality all having work bringing them to that level. Many things on each I would need to redo or would live with regrettably. My OCD kicks in with these so any little thing drives me crazy.

No such thing as a true #1 car but I get concerned when I read things like just less than a quart of oil in 200 miles.??? If that is the case a top end is needed at a min and from the looks of the rest of the car I would have to assume the mileage is higher than stated.

In either case the painter did an amazingly consistent job or they layered it on and cut it down to achieve consistent readings. You can see the dirt in the carpeting that didn't wash out and many other little things. I guess this is the new norm and I need to up my insurance. Best luck to all the new owners they are buying a 30 year old + car and at least some TLC has been put into these but no doubt more to follow.

rsabeebe

you're right. those all did bring another $17-18k on the white/burgundy car. i'm partial to black/black with sports, but i'd happily own any one of them.

AFKC

I just increased my agreed value with my agent last week. 91 C2 5spd with 56k miles.

rsabeebe

with the market taking a 2300 point dump in the last 2-3 weeks, i'll be interested to see if some of this optimism slows down the car market. a friend of mine suggested we're in a new phase of wealth and that there is plenty of money for toys like this and he could be absolutely correct. maybe it even comes down to assets being more stable as the market moves forward. the current administration certainly doesn't seem to be doing much to prop the market up at the moment. i'm very curious to see what all markets go in the next 12 months.

Dubbed743

I too am attempting to determine whether it was this white/burgandy car's condition (and auction presentation), a market trend shift related to the recent equities correction/bond yield run-up, or just the speed with which 964s have been appreciating that primarily impacted this sale price compared to the other cars listed. One sale does not a trend make, but I wouldn't be surprised if we've temporarily seen the high auction prices for "driver grade" C2/C4. I think a 8/10 or 9/10 car and will make new highs, although I don't think anyone will want to sell theirs - I know I don't.

I don't drive my 911s in the winter, but if where we are holds in March I'm now thinking $140k agreed value is +/- 10% for my car. That said, I don't think most of us here actually know what our C2 are worth until we get an "investment grade" one up for sale on BaT or one of the other public auction sites.

This is probably the nicest one that's sold recently, however it looks like it's had paint and is a (non-German) RoW car, which notably impacts value: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...11-carrera-57/

cobalt

The white car had a lot of ?? in general compared to the others. It is hard to determine a car that has been completely repainted mileage is real or TMU. In either case the engine will need some work soon. I suspect if you aren't a wrench or handy at least another $20k or more but who knows.

9 months ago I looked at a 90 C4 with many needs I came close to picking it up for $45k today the same car is nearly $90k still with needs. So I don't see how we can make a call without a few months but these numbers still seem high to me.

All I can say is do we want these to continue on this trajectory? I don't invest in 964's I collect and appreciate them for what they are. All this rise in value just costs me a lot more in insurance premiums and even less comfort when driving. People see one and they race to get alongside and nearly drive into you while taking video. Race off and they chase you. You have to wonder if someone might try to jack it or something some days.

A little over a week ago someone asked me to look at this car. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-carrera-2-57/ The owner was going to trade a low mileage 993 S4 in a gorgeous color with low miles for it. I quickly corrected the individual letting him know his asking price was too low for the market. The second the seller heard he wouldn't let the car go for considerably less than market value he said I am throwing this up on BaT. So glad he passed.

Unfortunately I did not have a chance to look at the car so it is what it is. Had no idea it was supercharged. It looks like a car I looked into for someone back in 2020 out midwest. It was a nice car but for me the supercharger is a killer. They give you ultimate power but kill driveability. Also some may not like that it has no radio. The paint is Amethyst and AFAIK so is the interior so the Magenta discussed makes me think. It may be for special colors but I recently pulled a few carpets out and non had anything written on them. Also 400 hp I don't think so I have removed a lot of these and they don't make all that much extra power but drag the engine down and create lots of unwanted heat.

A lot going on with this one. IMO a lot of work needed to return this to original and no paint readings which has me looking for tape lines. Could be PPF but I am not sure. If this breaks 6 figures than I don't think much has changed.

smegman

well its been bid up to 118k lol

RapidGT

The holy grail road legal 964.

https://www.goodingco.com/lot/1993-p...T&pageNumber=0

jpoint

I think 964's are still a bit like Grand Seiko watches. People who don't know see Seiko and think "that can't be worth more than a few hundred dollars". The idea of a $5,000 Seiko watch is hard to believe - a $25,000 Seiko is inconceivable. Seiko watches are considered step children to many watch folks but they make one of the most advance, most accurate, mechanical movements in the world - and put them in watches that start at nearly $5000. Similarly, 964's were the step child 911 for so long that it's hard to understand the recent high values. If you think about it objectively - the prices make sense. The 964 was the most expensive original body style 911 ever sold by Porsche. Indeed - it was the most expensive series of air cooled Porsches ever built. It's the last series built in the mostly the old school Porsche production method. It's the most advanced mechanical version of the original body style. It's the only version with ABS and stand alone engine management (the 993 integrates the two). It has the most advance/best factory suspension of the original body style cars. In so many objective ways - the 964 was Porsche's best AND last traditional bodied car. Plus - in relative terms - they didn't make allot of them. If the entire market ever comes to this analysis - these could be "reasonable" prices for a 964. Yes the early air cooled cars still have that "it" factor that make so many people want one but objectively the 964 was a better car. But then objectively - the 996 is a better car than the 964, 997 better than the 996, 991 better, . . . What I think will make the 964 pricey going forward is if it becomes the car with the "it" factor of old school combined with the most modern mechanicals in a traditional look. Singer gets $500k for a back dated 964. What happens if people decide they actually appreciate the original 964 body as symbolizing the best that body style ever achieved?

JAB12

@jpoint Disagree with the Seiko analogy, but there’s a reason why I sold both my WB 993s and kept both my 964s. Singers are into 7 figures already.

Jmw1234

Exactly.

Dubbed743

I don't think you're wrong about 964, but I literately see zero similarities with Grand Seiko (and am secretly judging you for saying so ).

A much better analogy would be an original A. Lange & Sohne Cabaret. Expensive and somewhat unpopular when new in the early 90s, they now command a premium because of their rarity and exquisite craftsmanship. 95% of Rolex "enthusiasts" (Mustang owners in our analogy) wouldn't know anything about it besides being able to read the make.

GT-R is a Grand Seiko - technical masterpiece, no soul.

jpoint

I started to use Lange & Sohne or Bovet in my example but thought people might not know the brands well enough to appreciate the analogy. Most folks have heard of Seiko watches and consider them good but not particularly desirable for watch connoisseurs (certainly not the kind of watch you'd compare to a Rolex if you didn't know better). Lange & Sohne and Bovet (and many other watches) prices start where Rolex prices end for the most part and exceed several hundred thousand dollars at the high end (good analogy watches for hypercar exotics). For my analogy - the 964 is a 911 - thus always a good car but not particularly desirable for 911 connoisseurs - at least until recently. Lange & Sohne is a watch brand that is under appreciated but also largely unobtainable for most folks at any time - new or used. 964's were very obtainable until just the last 5 years or so. Seiko watches are still very obtainable as long as you don't expect your Seiko quartz watch to be a Spring Drive (watch guys will know what I mean). Further - I was talking about the objective reasons why a 964 could be the most expensive used air cooled 911 ever based on what it was when new. However, it's been valued lower than other objectively inferior 911 air cooled cars that have a certain "it" factor that drives up their prices. Similarly - a Seiko spring drive movement is objectively better than anything you can get in a Rolex - at any price. It keeps better time, it's a purely in house movement that you can only get in a Seiko watch, and it has a characteristic that no other watch of any type at any price can duplicate - a true sweep second hand. BUT - it doesn't have the "it" factor of even a low end Rolex among the common watch audience. It's a step child. What makes some cars - and in this analogy - watches more valuable is the subjective demand for them, not whether they are objectively the "best" car of the type. I rest my case.

Paolo1

Care to share a shot of one of these seikos that you consider to be their best example? Not knowing the brand, I'm only finding watches that look like timexes I had in the 70s. Clearly I'm looking at the wrong thing.