georgej

While I agree with rapidgt that the '93 RS 3.8 is the holy grail for the 964 (collector) it is A. too precious to use and B. lacks elements like A/C that I want for a road car so I guess I will not be bidding.

Secondly, how did a 964 pricing (value) thread get hijacked by watch collectors? And what is wrong with Rolex's? I love my 1016 Explorer I bought new as well as other fun watches though none of that is relevant to our discourse.

Paolo1

It's a metaphor

cobalt

I figured it would which just shows you the market continues to buy anything 964 and pay up for it. I have heard some crazy numbers for targas and cabs lately as well. The Amethyst car was pretty but that supercharger install was a nightmare and would be a bit of work to undo the damage. I do find it interesting that a so so 964 seems to command more $$ than a comparable 89 930 or equal condition 928GTS. These were priced in the same range as the 965's for the longest now they are losing traction.

If I only had the funds. I know of a blue one that I would love to get my hands on but in the end for the downpayment I could build a pretty decent clone.

BTW SIngers are easily $700k not $500k over the price of a 964 and take around 3+ years to get built. At this rate it will cost you close to a million soon to have one made if you don't have a donor.

jpoint

@georgej - your point is well taken so I'll leave the metaphor alone and spare you Grand Seiko pictures. No disrespect here to Rolex. The whole discussion was about the fact that pricing and values of 964's is following the patterns you see in other areas of "luxury" purchases. The 964 we've all known and loved for years has finally been discovered/appreciated by a broader audience. When that happens - in virtually any market - the trend is for prices to jump rapidly and out of sync with other parts of the market (in % gain). I wasn't trying to hijack the thread. I was trying to give an example of how 964 pricing shouldn't be a surprise to this group. We've known it was a great car for years. Most of us were fortunate enough to figure that out before the wider audience for air cooled 911's. I visited the Singer operation years ago and got a wonderful tour from the CFO. He explained that the 964 was the chosen platform because it was the only 911 ever made with a stand alone ABS system (not part of the engine management computer). Thus they could install separate engine management upgrades without having to worry about how that impacted the brakes and work on braking upgrades separately from the engine. He said it was in many ways the last analog 911 but the new suspension layouts made upgrading easier than with G body or earlier cars. PLUS at the time they were bargain priced. You could buy a really nice driver for $20k and a decent donor car with a matching engine that needed work for $15k or less. That's when Singers started at $350K and $500k was top of the food chain. Clearly my Singer pricing is out of date. @Paolo1 - I refer you to https://www.crownandcaliber.com/ - a website that discusses and deals in used luxury watches. They have some interesting intro info on Grand Seiko.

Pardonmypov

I too was thinking about the future and growing prices of both Porsches and watches, and came to a conclusion that simply global demographics are working in our favor.
More and more people are becoming middle class / upper middle, want something precious but unique, which is believed to appreciate in value, hence a decrease in supply of vintage / classic cars. There still are and will be people that buy everything new, but with time, they too will get frustrated losing 30-50% of value over 3-5 years and start putting at least some of their money into something with a limited supply.
While there may be corrections, the trend is upwards imo.

Dubbed743

Coverage updated to $140k, with a built in "inflation checkup" every few months moving forward. Approved within 2h, only provided a single picture because they didn't have one on file (for the past 10 years, apparently).

Agent said "seems like everyone is updating their policies over the past few months on these old Porsches"

Welcome to the new normal.

misterbeverlyhills

Which carrier are you with?

misterbeverlyhills

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-carrera-2-55/

I had to chuckle at this one, theft recovery, mileage unknown, swapped 5 speed for tip and he wouldn't take $97,000.

cobalt

He probably has much more into it. This is the problem when customizing a car like this. I never understood why people put so much energy into a car and personalize it to their tastes and then sell it? I modified mine but plan to keep it so no worries but what you like isn't necessarily what someone else does. There are also many questions not answered. The car shows multiple layers of paint they left and painted over which also would concern me over time. The yellow zinc plating is starting to corrode and doesn't last very long unlike the factory yellow cad plating which will last much longer. Then you have the half done rear seat delete and little info on what was done with the 3.8 build? No big brake update and green calipers although some pics show 3.3L turbo rotor with the right one being installed on the left side. I guess that idea was dropped. I can go on and on but it was clearly a lot of effort but not my taste and many questions that need to be asked but not on BaT.

He will find a buyer eventually only so many of these to go around.

Sadly if I had to put a price on my C2 after all the work I've done I can only imagine in man hours alone.

dmaddox

I have to agree and in some ways, sympathize with the seller on this one. There was a lot invested in this car and I guarantee that ROW silver car was what they had in mind. That car went for...160K all in? A very similar build here, but not nearly as clean of an execution, and the car to begin with was not the candidate the ROW car was either.

As I work on my C2, I know how some of that stuff is pricey - the 935 style Tarrett rear spring plates for example. I just think this package was a bit too "Billie Eilish" (a great sound, hint of green...otherwise meh.) for the market, with (as mentioned) too many unknowns and not marketed nearly as well. Side by side (yes the ROW car again, much cleaner/better specimen) was a pretty similar build - yet nearly 70K between the two.

For reference:
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-carrera-2-55/ (The Billie Eilish build...lol)
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-carrera-2-49/

georgej

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...964-carrera-2/

I just noticed this in the BAT email this morning. It looks to me to be the most interesting C2 to come along in quite a while and I think the market will agree. I specifically wanted a GPW car with black interior though I think interesting color combos are elevated in this community. With the bid at $90k and SIX DAYS to go I think this may be yet another insurance adjusting opportunity.

dmaddox

Wow - I just looked it over. VERY clean example. You almost don't want to personalize it at all it is so oem and clean!

Elegia

Guards Red '92 964 RS
72,974 km / 45,343 miles
¥32,125,000 / $279,082
Location: Mie, Japan

georgej

I agree, only original once. While I have been tempted with exhaust and other mods I have limited changes to PCCM and replacing tired shocks with Bilstien (+ ROW springs).

cobalt

Not much info and not much base about this base RS. It has a wonderful build including a PLX gage in the tach and what appears to be a 3.8RS engine modification. No real info and yet they use velcro to hold the ashtray closed? I suspect it is a beast. this looks very much like a local car to me done up with the same wheels and similar interior. My only issue is a full cage for street use. I don't think many want a full blown track car these days.

I wouldn't worry too much people seem to want either these days. TNK what the flavor of the month will be. If you are concerned simple mods and retain the original parts is always accepted.