^^^^ Good summation Macca.

 

Doug, do you have the time for the break at the end of stages 11 and 13?

 

While I feel very sorry for the 360 spider driver and his family, I seriously question how you can drive a) a convertible at full speed without a cage, b) at full speed with a passenger and no cage??

I think the organisers and C.O.C might be in a bit of trouble here??
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My wife just flicked me the Herald article. Trying to explain it was a fluke thing didn't help my defence any.

In this instance it doesnt appear to me that the car being a spider had any material effect on the outcome. Infact its on a fast road course Id be more concerned about a drop top than at the race track where the chances of having a roll over are fairly slim. Perhaps a 4-6 point harness may have made a difference for the driver but there is much we are unaware of (past injuries such as a broken neck or back, heart attack etc). I think it was just a case of bad luck. Im hoping it wont affect accessibility of private track hire in NZ. All we need now is the PC ***** to get on the bandwagon. The fact no one has yet died at Taupo speaks volumes as to its saftey record (and surprised me). People die every year pulling out of McDonalds car parks in NZ. This is a safe sport relatively speaking so i hope the media dont go to town on this!

 

Macca, it's front page around some of NZ. A slow news day.

My job is risk. Give me the financial profile of
100 businesses and I will tell you how many of them will probably have payment difficulties in a year, but I won't necessarily be able to tell you exactly which ones.

I figure we are doing the same thing here. We all suspect the dice will roll badly for someone if we do this often enough, but think it will be someone else. The list is starting to build in our own group, though nothing serious so far.

I told Simon I had yet to spin so a Hans was not necessary right now. He quickly gave me a few scenarios where that rationalisation was irrelevant.

We should all be as aware as possible of the risks we take and owe it to those that care about us to de-risk that.

 

John. You are a Banker who's role is Risk Manager. You must be the safest guy I know! Ill just start following you around the track LOL.

Ive watched your in car videos. You are sitting so far from the windscreen you most immediate risk in an accident is the roof bowing in. But then you will have already anticipated that I suspect. Im not sure you could actually maintain the same driving position with a half cage in the car but that would be my next recommendation along with a Hans style neck brace if you want to be 100% covered.

We each have different ideas of risk. Its up to the individual to ascertain. I think a half/full cage is a very good investment from a structural integrity on impact resistance. Adding a harness means drilling more holes and for a daily driver the belts can be a nuisance. There's no doubt its the next thing to do to improve saftey but you need to get the Hans with it or you are actually increasing the potential for injury not reducing it.

I think it pays to maintain some perspective too. I can think of a couple of things that happen in my life each week that are at least as risky as our track sessions, Im sure others can too. Paul and wearing his high heels come to mind. How many 10s of thousands of club track days laps have taken place at taupo these last 10 years without a fatality. Key is not to over react but it sounds like NZ media have already done that. In the last 5 weeks Ive learnt more about international media than prior and realise how easy something like this can take root...

 

Paul - same way as you can drive a Boxster on Targa Tour... and even that comparison is not perfect - would you rather be in a modern convertible with driver aids, side airbags and more modern side intrusion protection or an older coupe with none of those things but a more rigid shell in the event of rollover. I really don't know.

Like mjh said a while back its probably not a sensible thing to be speculating on the accident details over the net. For example one man's 'full speed' is another man's '7/10ths'. We simply weren't there. Its bloody sobering for sure though and the discussion about HANS and other safety devices for the track is a worthwhile one. We have full choice as to how we drive on track and (mostly) who we choose to go out on track with.

 

The Herald has just reported that the car got 'brand new tyres' at lunchtime, and it was a cold day. From the pictures showing the sidewalls, it looks like they are not as black as just bought ones to my eyes but if they were literally 'brand new' they may still have been a bit slippery with the factory mould release, on top of not yet having been scrubbed in.

Regardless, it brings it home again. Even if he did everything right, the residual risks are real. My thoughts are with his family at this time, and I believe I we owe it to our own families to learn as much as we can from such terrible events, as well as our own and others near misses.

As for the Targa Tour discussion, there is a kick in taking a corner well and I'm not sure that wearing a helmet would speed me up much more. Been faster elsewhere of course but it felt odd setting the speed chime at 195 to meet their 200 limit. They chose pretty tight roads for the one day targa sprint though so while we topped out just over 180, the chime was redundant. That said, hitting a decent tree at 200+ or at 120 is likely to have the same outcome, so common sense says that you drive to stay on the road but I'd also rather be wearing as much safety gear as permitted - at minimum some flameproof underwear plus cotton or wool rather than poly/nylon overs.

 

Macca, most cars are built within a standard human dimension profiling. At 1.93m I imagine I'm in the 99th percentile of human height. It's certainly a mission to fit comfortably in a car.

For me the 911 issues are a combination of leg length and sloping roof. Putting the seat low helps with head clearance but I am limited by knee room if I sit forward. At one stage I was going to modify the OBC switch lever to give me more knee room, however I seem to have adapted. I'm very comfortable with the harness. I'll be a Chicane prior to the next track day to sort out a device.

 

A couple of good points here. Firstly the tyres. It also occurred to me brand new cold road tyres on the rear axle could also have caused a spin and *** first into the tyre barrier. We should all know you need to scrub in new road tyres with a few laps or 100km+ of road driving. perhaps this was a contributing factory to the actual event - outcome aside.

The second thing is clothing for Targa Tour. I actually own ZERO polyester (or Ployester mix). The single exception I can think of is my fleece! Try living in the tropics in anything but cotton! However a good point noted here for Tourists. Wear cotton only (jeans, socks, T shirt). It quite warm in the car with all that adrenaline flowing - youll only need your fleece or jacket to keep you warm between stages whilst waiting for the marshals. Wear lots of deodorant. Fear can cause sweat!

 

John. It became apparent to me the moment I watched your in car videos. Your reach and purchase to/on the wheel is also sub optimal as a result of being so reclined in your seat. I can see you are fairly challenged in that 911 cockpit. What a shame you like Porsches and not Holdens ;-P

Im not sure if I mentioned but amongst the collection of useless degrees and academia is a degree in Human Factors Engineering (oft called ergonomics) which took its roots from RAF in the earlier half of last century. I conducted the only study in the world on escape times/success rates/human physiology for NZ/Au airmen during the second world war on Lancaster bombers! I had access to NZs only Lancaster bomber. Its a long story...

I digress. If you have a harness then Hans style device good idea.

 

Macca - I'm not sure a 993 can go that slow?? (ha-ha hee-hee)
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The Maps and spectator points are up on targa website. http://new.targa.co.nz/community

Having not done a Targa I don't know any of the stages. It looks like the Lake Waikere stage is being used twice SS3 and SS5. maybe forwards and backwards?

Friday http://new.targa.co.nz/userfiles/fil...0Final%202.pdf

 

In this accident a 4 or 6 point harness would have made a lot of difference, and likely resulted in a better outcome. I have talked to a number of friends today who were at the track yesterday and it is unfortunately a lot of bad luck coming together at once.

The family is incredibly upset as one can imagine so its best to keep comments out of the public I think. There is a lot of bulls**t on the NZ Herald Facebook site about speed kills, should have listened to the Police, serves you right, rich ***** etc etc. These comments are totally out of order.

I will say that it was the first lap after a lunch break and cold tyres could well have well been a factor, however we all make mistakes so laying blame is not the answer. RIP

 

My comment around cab's is that some cars are not allowed - try getting an MX5 across the line at a play day or a 911 cab? I note as I write the Sprints flyer at the moment that cab's are not allowed for PCNZ. Boxters can only run in single and not dual sprints, and only in a secession by themselves.

My greater question is allowing passengers, which we obviously can't do for any PCNZ, Uncles or Play Day - come to think of it any track day event (without a cage)