Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
11-22-2013, 05:13 AM
#6272
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 2,085
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
11-22-2013, 05:17 AM
#6273
Rennlist Member
11-22-2013, 05:27 AM
#6274
Rennlist Member
John. You are over thinking this. Turn one is nothing to do with memorizing braking points. IMO ist just about hooking up out of the sweeper, rowing gears and braking as late as you possibly humanly think is possible. Its a very "instinctive" part of the track. You test your braver each time and hope you don't become extinct! Seriously though, I dont think there is science to this part of the track its about going hard, pushing the boundaries of your fear and having faith in the machine and the chassis beneath you.
11-22-2013, 05:56 AM
#6277
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 2,085
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
11-22-2013, 06:04 AM
#6278
Rennlist Member
The fastest 964 owner in the group cant use the AIM! That's telling. John. Throw the AIM away I reckon you might find a Dave or two. Its clearly interfering with the force.
11-22-2013, 06:27 AM
#6279
Rennlist Member
John. You are over thinking this. Turn one is nothing to do with memorizing braking points. IMO ist just about hooking up out of the sweeper, rowing gears and braking as late as you possibly humanly think is possible. Its a very "instinctive" part of the track. You test your braver each time and hope you don't become extinct! Seriously though, I dont think there is science to this part of the track its about going hard, pushing the boundaries of your fear and having faith in the machine and the chassis beneath you.
11-22-2013, 06:46 AM
#6281
Three Wheelin'
Hi Walter
I have done every Targa since 2008 and only missed one Rotorua event in that time. I think Macca summarized most of it. You definitely need a service crew because its a tough event and even if your are mechanically competent it gets too draining if even you have the slightest problems. I always take 2 experienced rally mechanics on Targa NZ - for a shorter 2 day event I will go with one mechanic and a helper who can sort out fueling, tyres etc
As a rough rule I generally budget 20k assuming nothing major goes wrong.
In terms of speed with a 200k limit on Targa and with the fast tour guys not far short of that the difference is mainly in tighter corners and wet. For example I always have adjusted set up for the wet - shocks dialed softer and depending on how wet bars off too. Very few Tour guys will be bothered due to hassle factor assuming that they have adjustable suspension because if its pissing down you wouldn't be bothered crawling under the car. In the dry the main stress on the car is not going fast down the straights - its the constant on - off brakes and gas and side to side in corners. Wear is definitely much more. Usually I will need to change pads on a Targa NZ, probably also need to add brake fluid as brakes start going soft once or twice in 5 days.
Also always carry spare rotors mounted on hats on front so that if we need to swap out because they are warped they can be machined by crew during the day and be ready to reuse. I also carry lots of other spares but that's more optional - suspension arms, steering rack, radiator, calipers,
Mainly because I am used to a full race car I feel safer with all the gear - cage, full seat with side head support, hans, helmet, belts - than a road car at 80% of that pace. remember if you think of a 20% time difference on a track its huge.
So if you are prepared to go to a race car then it will be worth it if not you will still have a lot of fun on the Tour and not have to worry about things so much. The Tour is more relaxed whereas on Targa if you have even small problems the competitive element means you still need to get to the next stage, nurse the car, worry about the fix etc
I have done every Targa since 2008 and only missed one Rotorua event in that time. I think Macca summarized most of it. You definitely need a service crew because its a tough event and even if your are mechanically competent it gets too draining if even you have the slightest problems. I always take 2 experienced rally mechanics on Targa NZ - for a shorter 2 day event I will go with one mechanic and a helper who can sort out fueling, tyres etc
As a rough rule I generally budget 20k assuming nothing major goes wrong.
In terms of speed with a 200k limit on Targa and with the fast tour guys not far short of that the difference is mainly in tighter corners and wet. For example I always have adjusted set up for the wet - shocks dialed softer and depending on how wet bars off too. Very few Tour guys will be bothered due to hassle factor assuming that they have adjustable suspension because if its pissing down you wouldn't be bothered crawling under the car. In the dry the main stress on the car is not going fast down the straights - its the constant on - off brakes and gas and side to side in corners. Wear is definitely much more. Usually I will need to change pads on a Targa NZ, probably also need to add brake fluid as brakes start going soft once or twice in 5 days.
Also always carry spare rotors mounted on hats on front so that if we need to swap out because they are warped they can be machined by crew during the day and be ready to reuse. I also carry lots of other spares but that's more optional - suspension arms, steering rack, radiator, calipers,
Mainly because I am used to a full race car I feel safer with all the gear - cage, full seat with side head support, hans, helmet, belts - than a road car at 80% of that pace. remember if you think of a 20% time difference on a track its huge.
So if you are prepared to go to a race car then it will be worth it if not you will still have a lot of fun on the Tour and not have to worry about things so much. The Tour is more relaxed whereas on Targa if you have even small problems the competitive element means you still need to get to the next stage, nurse the car, worry about the fix etc
11-22-2013, 07:15 AM
#6282
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 2,085
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
11-22-2013, 07:25 AM
#6283
Rennlist Member
I still think you follow your nose on that corner. You are not over braking you simply aren't braking late enough or hard enough.
Go into it so fast that you wonder how youll possibly slow down in time, heel toe form 4th to 3rd whilst braking so hard you are almost under ABS and at the soonest moment you have scrubbed enough speed off turn right in on partial throttle balancing the back not to induce oversteer. If you leave braking to the latest possible moment your turn in point will become obvious (the point you can soonest turn the wheel without upsetting the car) and all those other things you talk of will happen naturally. The human being is a wonderful machine - you put it in the tightest spot and it will always strive to survive, Your survival instincts will always be your best safety net.
At Manfield I picked everyone's brains who had driven that track properly. Jamie was very helpful. he told me if I wasn't getting into abs at the turn at the end of the front straight i wasnt braking hard enough. He also said I hit 190kmph in teh 993 (Not quite true but I had GPs and hes probably used his speedo in the past). getting hot R compounds into abs in a straight takes some doing as I found out but by the final session of the day i was getting that pedal pumping at the end of that straight pretty much most of the time (maybe the tyres were cooked LOL!). Thing is you really have to overcome your fear. Fir the first 3-4 sessions I thought he was pulling my tit. I reckoned I would pretty much come off that corner if I braked any later. Thing is I never did, huge inside positive camber and way more run off than you realize means its a actually a pretty safe corner unless you loose your brakes, your bottle or you drive a lotus!
John you fastest lap was in the first session last time you were at HD. Thats odd. Nothing wrong with the car as Steve put in a sub 1.20 later in the day. Something happened. You either did something right during that session or you did something wrong for the rest of the day. It could simply have been a mental attitude thing - maybe you were amped up on that first sessions? You need to think back what it was that made you faster and you need to bottle that and shower in it before heading to the track. If its anger you need then think of something that makes you angry, or maybe you just came in fresh and hot and heavy on which case try to throw away the fear and keep pushing the boundaries (safely) until you are maxing that entry and turn in....
Anyone else need specific coaching and advise on subjects I know absolutely nothing about then please feel free to email me I do accept paypal and dont stand behind my work....
Go into it so fast that you wonder how youll possibly slow down in time, heel toe form 4th to 3rd whilst braking so hard you are almost under ABS and at the soonest moment you have scrubbed enough speed off turn right in on partial throttle balancing the back not to induce oversteer. If you leave braking to the latest possible moment your turn in point will become obvious (the point you can soonest turn the wheel without upsetting the car) and all those other things you talk of will happen naturally. The human being is a wonderful machine - you put it in the tightest spot and it will always strive to survive, Your survival instincts will always be your best safety net.
At Manfield I picked everyone's brains who had driven that track properly. Jamie was very helpful. he told me if I wasn't getting into abs at the turn at the end of the front straight i wasnt braking hard enough. He also said I hit 190kmph in teh 993 (Not quite true but I had GPs and hes probably used his speedo in the past). getting hot R compounds into abs in a straight takes some doing as I found out but by the final session of the day i was getting that pedal pumping at the end of that straight pretty much most of the time (maybe the tyres were cooked LOL!). Thing is you really have to overcome your fear. Fir the first 3-4 sessions I thought he was pulling my tit. I reckoned I would pretty much come off that corner if I braked any later. Thing is I never did, huge inside positive camber and way more run off than you realize means its a actually a pretty safe corner unless you loose your brakes, your bottle or you drive a lotus!
John you fastest lap was in the first session last time you were at HD. Thats odd. Nothing wrong with the car as Steve put in a sub 1.20 later in the day. Something happened. You either did something right during that session or you did something wrong for the rest of the day. It could simply have been a mental attitude thing - maybe you were amped up on that first sessions? You need to think back what it was that made you faster and you need to bottle that and shower in it before heading to the track. If its anger you need then think of something that makes you angry, or maybe you just came in fresh and hot and heavy on which case try to throw away the fear and keep pushing the boundaries (safely) until you are maxing that entry and turn in....
Anyone else need specific coaching and advise on subjects I know absolutely nothing about then please feel free to email me I do accept paypal and dont stand behind my work....
11-22-2013, 07:37 AM
#6284
Rennlist Member
Dave - where did you source your rear wheel packers? I have some 16's I'm playing with but the off set means they rub on the oil line - I need to find 10mm??
11-22-2013, 12:49 PM
#6285
Rennlist Member
John you fastest lap was in the first session last time you were at HD. Thats odd. Nothing wrong with the car as Steve put in a sub 1.20 later in the day. Something happened. You either did something right during that session or you did something wrong for the rest of the day. It could simply have been a mental attitude thing - maybe you were amped up on that first sessions? You need to think back what it was that made you faster and you need to bottle that and shower in it before heading to the track. If its anger you need then think of something that makes you angry, or maybe you just came in fresh and hot and heavy on which case try to throw away the fear and keep pushing the boundaries (safely) until you are maxing that entry and turn in...
Tomorrow, I will have the AIM to myself, a laptop to analyse after each session and a seat to take Steve out. More importantly I will practice with a purpose. Steve talks about simplicity in driving I.e. Keep driver load down to a minimum by concentrating on what tasks the brain can focus on. The force will be with me.