Macca

On the track the PDK-S is in my opinion superior. I dont think any of the long time GT3/RS RL track junkies who have made the jump would disagree.

For a multi use DD the PDK-S is superior. I dont think anyone who has spent time in Auckland traffic will disagree. Ive spent alot of time this last 5 days running errands in Auckland would not hesitate to use it as a DD. The new DSC module has further fortified its strengths in this regard (over pot holes, expansion joints etc).

For a back road Sunday driver, fast back road Northland rum runner and annual Targa Tour car the MT is IMO more fun. PDK-S in manual mode is close in engagement at 7/10ths but the 991 at 7/10th is going very quickly and becomes a bit surreal. I dont think Ive driven the 991 GT3 on public roads above 7/10th but I have ventured above 7/10th in the 993 and its not as scary...

Its my opinion that you dont buy a 9000 rpm NA GT3 for Sunday drives on NZ B/C roads. Its overkill and not the bets tool for extracting maximum enjoyment without reaching anti social speeds). You buy a GT3 to go to the track. The 991 gen GT3/RS make a great fist of getting you there on some interesting B roads without breaking your back and can suffice as daily transport if you have short trips around the city. Previous generations did not multi mode as well.

The stickler is all this recent MT nostalgia. There is no doubt both transmissions have their place but the biggest compaints about the GT3 range doing PDK are from USA where its seen as a badge of honour and a hardener of man breasts to beable to "shift a stick". In Europe the cost of autos like in NZ & UK has historically meant most of us grew up with MT so its no big deal. European enthusiasts have largely lapped up the new GT products and anyone using them extensively on the track has nothing but good things to say, but the "traditionalists" have taken umbrage and PAG have responded with the GT4 & 911R. I think the biggest issue is they never gave us the choice in the first place with the GT range.

The 991.2 GT3 will be launched at Geneva in 2017 and will feature the 4.0L engine with almost certainly a choice of MT 6 spd or PDK-S. The GT3RS I believe will be PDK only.

If you were a track junkie that would be a very tough decision if you have driven the current crop of GT cars on track and I should say PDK-S would be the most favored option. However in terms of secondary value these cars after their first owner of 2-3 years slowly fall down the food chain to Porsche enthusiasts on a more modest budget who will buy them for their legend and kudos amongst other things and will favour the MT transmission for being more "pure". So 5 years out in residual terms the MT wins. In teh first 5 years you have new buyers to market including in NZ many older fans and NZ new arrivals who may not favour or even beable to drive a MT so PDK is a popular option, widening the audience for the product.

IMO the 911R is a LE car to preview the changes we will see on the next GT3. MT, CF fenders, lighter hood etc.

If you watch the EVO video for the 911R below you cant help but pick up on APs language and sense the car was to address a complaint rather than what the Motorsports department thought was the direction the GT cars need to go. Infact there are moment you can taste a bit of cynicism, albeit it hes a great sales guy to be fronting the show.

If you consider the 911R a parts bin badge engineering exercise loosely based on a very low production 911 care used by customers for competition in 1967 then you really have to weight up whether you want to be one of 3-4 owners of such a car in NZ paying $400+K NZD for a LE model which isnt perfectly suited to the track (PCCB, aero, lack of cage and harness options, expensive panel repair, slower than 991 GT3/RS etc) or if you would rather wait 12 months for the launch of the 991.2 GT3 which will be all of this wrapped up in the GT programme packaging for around 290K+. As I say depends on your wallet and your intentions. As a speculator or collector the 911R may have appeal. Otherwise IMO you are better off taking your $400k and buying a well sorted 911S and a SC, a 2.7RS rep, a 964RS, 993RS, building a fantastic 2.5 MFI long hood custom 911 hot rod, buying a 993 and dropping a 400 bhp Rothsport engine in it, buying a brace of earlier cars or a 50% deposit on a Singer etc. There are alot of options if you want "soul" and frankly the GT product and the Quasimodo 911R are not the soul food ticket - they are for autobahns and race tracks.

P.S. The above is my opinion. My 911s are driven not polished so take that into account with my views.

996tnz

Choice is good, so good on Porsche for putting it on the table, but my first thought when I saw this model - and particularly the marketing around this and the 718 twins - is that VW has called all hands to the pump in the wake of the emissions scandal (where I believe they effectively just responded to US cheating by cheating back) and ordered Porsche to show more leg by further prostituting/celebrating its motorsport heritage for the sake of shifting high margin consumer metal. Not taking away from the car itself, just the suspected circumstances of its birth. All I'm really dying to know about the 911R though is whether a proper handbrake is back in the mix.

Macca

Here is a curious detail from underneath the 911R.

The shorter front bumper lip (than the GT3 or RS) apparently creates zero lift at a nominated speed (assume 200kmph). The rear activated electronic spoiler (not showc much in the videos but raises a fraction higher than 911 Carrera S) means the rear still generates a bit of lift, so they cobbled together this for under the engine which apparently more or less negates any lift from the rear at the nominated speed.

Very reminiscent of the air craft industry. Quite a curious thing (its construction).

996tnz

Interesting thanks Macca. Looks super but I see they're calling it a diffuser. Gets the marketing tick but I'd love to see the airflow analytics around that. It's styled as a diffuser but doesn't seem to be getting a clean feed from the underbody, doesn't extend right to the back of the body, and doesn't much expand the volume of any contained air beneath it so I suspect it mostly just functions as a big hidden canard or dive plane - with a far higher aero drag cost per kg of downforce than a proper diffuser. Maybe it's just the photo angle but the restrictions above and behind it should cancel out some of the downforce it would otherwise generate, as air gets scooped up into the engine and bumper. I'm sure it does add downforce, as Porsche wouldn't risk their credibilty, but it's probably far less than it might appear to at first sight, and probably very little from diffusion.

If it actually does get a decent feed up front (can't find good underbody pics to check) another benefit of that would be to prevent it becoming a snowplough in graveled run-off areas where it would shovel stones up into the engine bay.

gt38088

unfortunately the design layout of the engine compromises the diffuser design. Not much flexibility here either so I agree only a minor benefit. Potentially much better upside in designing a diffuser for a gt4 wit more space to play with given mid engine.

mikey_audiogeek

RIP Martin Crowe.

Maxem

If I lived in the city in an apartment nearby, I'd grab this;

http://www.trademe.co.nz/a.aspx?id=1044044498

peterC2S

Interesting - will come with some rights/restrictions I guess. Love to know what it goes for. Moonbeams I'm guessing but potentially investment grade.

John McM

My sister in Wellington has limited means but wants a Euro car. Can someone tell me the inherent problems with these https://trademe.co.nz/992547747

kiwi 911

Silo Park has ground rent I believe, so more costs not mentioned?? (maybe).

PHG

John
I have had an A6 and S6 wagons..good cars, till @ 120k then lots of little things..not serious but annoying..then they are good again for ever.. Alloy block with no liners so not too good if you blow a head gasket and hydraulic a cylinder..(I know this...!)
Cheap car at that Kms I think

996tnz

The C5 allroad is a great car - timeless design, very safe and the engine is pretty epic - it can be taken beyond RS6 levels of power if someone is so inclined (mine's standard but still goes 0-100 in the 7s). Handle well as long as you drive them normally or trail-brake them - at lowest ride height they can even show up Porsches at gymkhanas.

Potential downsides? High fuel consumption (well in my hands anyway) and trick adjustable ride height air suspension that is expensive (by non-Porsche standards) to fix if/when it fails. Not much change from $1k a corner, and same for the controller. Maybe Audi cured it by 2005 but the 'lifetime fill' transmission fluid works no better in Audis than beemers either so get a pre-purchase done or sort out some tranny cover with the vendor before finalising the purchase.

The inside still looks great too, with the only common fault being the small central notification panel in the instrument cluster dying over time to show more and more blank lines (probably fixed by the 2005 but it is replaceable).

I searched for a 2001 because we had to have the removable 3rd row of rear facing seats but your sister probably doesnt want those anyway. Tyres seem to last forever on these things, certainly the Goodyear F1s she came with.

She still looks presentable in the carpark too and I'd buy her again in a heartbeat, though as with all 10 year old used euros I'd put another 20-30pc of the purchase price in a no-regrets fund just to be safe. But at 67,000 kms that one is still a baby!

Macca

I concur with both yourself and Walt (and so do some of the more qualified on the RL board i.e. top flight engineers). It looks a little "Meccano" to me?

996tnz

Talking of problems John, my quiet enjoyment of RL is suffering from your profile pic. Most every time I scroll, my left foot twitches and my BP shoots up...

gt38088

typical fully considered and long response to the R MT vs gt3 pdk question above by Macca.

I think part of the thing about cars being too fast for B/C roads now is size. maybe 991 is now too big relative to 997 and therefore the sweet spot is going to be gt4/spyder as the all round, do everything car. Size on track matter less and especially width brings more mechanical grip and ultimate performance. I spoke to Gavin Riches at Festival weekend and he commented that a developed 991 gt3 may not be quicker on Targa because of size so he isn't necessarily going to upgrade cars. It will be interesting to see if Mega Mitre 10 turns up on the side of a new 991RS and if it does how he thinks about it after the event.