Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
10-23-2015, 02:04 PM
Rennlist Member
I have a spare centre reflector
10-23-2015, 02:12 PM
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Radio sorted (being shipped from Germany). What are the current amp and speaker options? I wouldn't mind a sub as well so I can blast the techno at the track.
Last edited by John McM; 10-23-2015 at 04:05 PM.
10-23-2015, 03:06 PM
Intermediate
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Auckland NZ
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Running amps and subs I'd save for your *other vehicles, New head decks today are pretty grunty, Decent speakers and you will be away laughing.
When I purchased my SC it was full of 80s amps, would of been close to 50kgs.
I just have a oem radio delete panel and crank up the flat 6 classic hits.
When I purchased my SC it was full of 80s amps, would of been close to 50kgs.
I just have a oem radio delete panel and crank up the flat 6 classic hits.
10-23-2015, 04:05 PM
Burning Brakes
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That's interesting as I have never seen a geo sheet like that. It took a while to work out the flow but I can now see/understand the changes they have made.
Assuming your camber is in degrees and minutes then you have half a degree more front camber than rear which is about right. For a 964 I think 2.3"/2" is quite a nice track set up. Its a lot more aggressive than 964 RS ROW spec which is just over a degree front and rear but a lot less aggressive than 964 Cup which is closer 4 degrees at front.
Not over the top but a long way from factory too. Depending on your driving style I should think that those settings would suit best someone pushing on for sub 1.20 at HD using a dot rated tyre. The quicker you are (again depending on style) the more tyre roll over you will likely create at HD.
I see they have increased your front bias rake by almost a degree. Your front axle is below RS spec and your rear is above. This adds forward rake. I use a slight forward rake over the factory settings too. Not as much tho. HD is heavily elevated so its not so much needed there but useful on the flatter tracks such as Manfield.
The toe has piqued my interest. I assume you will use Z221 or similar at the track with this car? If so then the negative front toe will give it a slightly twitchy go kart feel on R comp rubber IMO. On road tyres you will not notice this. Ive had this set up prior (a little more aggressive) but have reverted to neutral front toe or minute toe in to make the car feel more stable. Under braking with heavy front compression on turn in (HD again) the front axle tends to push the wheels negative in any case. Id be very curious as to you thoughts here once you mount R comps. On the track this should work fine, but you may find it a little a little more sensitive to inputs on the road on R comps though youll adapt fast enough.
Look forward to your feedback next month after trying the new suspension out in anger. If you take your passenger seat out and ditch your tool kit, inflator and spare youll even be as light as Herman LOL!
Assuming your camber is in degrees and minutes then you have half a degree more front camber than rear which is about right. For a 964 I think 2.3"/2" is quite a nice track set up. Its a lot more aggressive than 964 RS ROW spec which is just over a degree front and rear but a lot less aggressive than 964 Cup which is closer 4 degrees at front.
Not over the top but a long way from factory too. Depending on your driving style I should think that those settings would suit best someone pushing on for sub 1.20 at HD using a dot rated tyre. The quicker you are (again depending on style) the more tyre roll over you will likely create at HD.
I see they have increased your front bias rake by almost a degree. Your front axle is below RS spec and your rear is above. This adds forward rake. I use a slight forward rake over the factory settings too. Not as much tho. HD is heavily elevated so its not so much needed there but useful on the flatter tracks such as Manfield.
The toe has piqued my interest. I assume you will use Z221 or similar at the track with this car? If so then the negative front toe will give it a slightly twitchy go kart feel on R comp rubber IMO. On road tyres you will not notice this. Ive had this set up prior (a little more aggressive) but have reverted to neutral front toe or minute toe in to make the car feel more stable. Under braking with heavy front compression on turn in (HD again) the front axle tends to push the wheels negative in any case. Id be very curious as to you thoughts here once you mount R comps. On the track this should work fine, but you may find it a little a little more sensitive to inputs on the road on R comps though youll adapt fast enough.
Look forward to your feedback next month after trying the new suspension out in anger. If you take your passenger seat out and ditch your tool kit, inflator and spare youll even be as light as Herman LOL!
Found the post from Doug:
Cars with full tanks of gas, empty boot (no spare etc). I won't post the driver weights apart from saying I get a 15kg advantage there :-)
These weights are driverless:
Lola 1334kg. 2 x std bucket seats (45kg), black forged 996 wheels with R888s
Herman 1380kg. 1x 8kg seat, fuchs with road tyres
Daves 80's loaner 1140kg
So of course John is looking where he can loose 36kg to get down to Lola weight. Problem for him is I've got quite a lot to loose in the seats and I suspect the wheels if I revert to the D90 16" on good rubber. Heh.
Cars with full tanks of gas, empty boot (no spare etc). I won't post the driver weights apart from saying I get a 15kg advantage there :-)
These weights are driverless:
Lola 1334kg. 2 x std bucket seats (45kg), black forged 996 wheels with R888s
Herman 1380kg. 1x 8kg seat, fuchs with road tyres
Daves 80's loaner 1140kg
So of course John is looking where he can loose 36kg to get down to Lola weight. Problem for him is I've got quite a lot to loose in the seats and I suspect the wheels if I revert to the D90 16" on good rubber. Heh.
10-23-2015, 04:11 PM
Rennlist Member
Lola is not much less than the official Curb weight (to DIN 70020): 3,031 lb/1,375 kg (C2); 3,100 lb/1,406 kg (Tiptronic), 3,252 lb (1,475 kg) (C4). Taking out the spares would have lost a few kg.
Herman is lighter because of:
1. Seats (38kg in the config tested)
2. Lwf
3. No rear seat backs
4. Ducktail
5. Primary bypass
6. No spare wheel
Herman is lighter because of:
1. Seats (38kg in the config tested)
2. Lwf
3. No rear seat backs
4. Ducktail
5. Primary bypass
6. No spare wheel
10-23-2015, 05:35 PM
Rennlist Member
Warwick. I'd say johns C4 is within 17 kg of yours once you correct for driver, spare wheel, toolkit, pump and factory seat/brackets etc. so you are not far off!!
Getting lighter is expensive and I'd only recommend the obvious. I'm at 1320 full tank with half cage (plus 18kg). Sunroof C2 with aircon, audio, carpet and rear wiper still in place. Things like big brake upgrades, rose jointed suspension arms, camber plates etc all add in weight. My goal has always been to get to 1295 kg but without compromising comfort but the only way I could realistically see this happening is alloy factory doors ($$$).
No problem on the suspension advice. I've been playing with the 993 set up for road and track for the last 5 years and had around 6 different goes at it and keep the ego sheets and make notes as I go. I've been lucky enough to learn a little from Pete Alder and others. I current,y run a road trim set u (for targa) which is less aggressive than your current settings. My favourite track set up was what i used for South Island Track Tour last year. -3.18 F/-2.24R (degrees and minutes) neutral from n toe, positive rear toe.
Getting lighter is expensive and I'd only recommend the obvious. I'm at 1320 full tank with half cage (plus 18kg). Sunroof C2 with aircon, audio, carpet and rear wiper still in place. Things like big brake upgrades, rose jointed suspension arms, camber plates etc all add in weight. My goal has always been to get to 1295 kg but without compromising comfort but the only way I could realistically see this happening is alloy factory doors ($$$).
No problem on the suspension advice. I've been playing with the 993 set up for road and track for the last 5 years and had around 6 different goes at it and keep the ego sheets and make notes as I go. I've been lucky enough to learn a little from Pete Alder and others. I current,y run a road trim set u (for targa) which is less aggressive than your current settings. My favourite track set up was what i used for South Island Track Tour last year. -3.18 F/-2.24R (degrees and minutes) neutral from n toe, positive rear toe.
10-23-2015, 05:41 PM
Drifting
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Lola is pretty much stock in terms of weight. At the time no primary muffler, spare wheel, tools, compressor but probably heavier wheels. There's a heap to loose if I chose to replace the seats with light weight race seats but that's not going to happen. I'm not currently interested in stripping weight to get a few seconds at the track. She's a nice cruiser with great suspension setup and secondary bypass means you can hear her coming :-)
10-23-2015, 05:41 PM
That twitchy go kart feel is very noticeable on a road tyre shod 996T but maybe earlier cars with their different rear suspension mask the effect? Picked mine up a year or so ago after ordering a couple of mm a side of toe out up front but boomeranged back from the first motorway turn-off and told them she was driving like a Camry so they must've toed her in instead. Found and fixed on the spot but it certainly illustrated how big a difference it makes to how she drives.
10-23-2015, 06:28 PM
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10-23-2015, 06:38 PM
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Lola is pretty much stock in terms of weight. At the time no primary muffler, spare wheel, tools, compressor but probably heavier wheels. There's a heap to loose if I chose to replace the seats with light weight race seats but that's not going to happen. I'm not currently interested in stripping weight to get a few seconds at the track. She's a nice cruiser with great suspension setup and secondary bypass means you can hear her coming :-)
Weight reduction gets expensive. I've probably spent $5+K just on weight focused items (such as custom CF transmission and fuel pump covers and RS door cards, seats etc). The next stage gets far more expensive than that!
Outside of battery, heater bypass, seats (which have more than a single benefit - i.e. better to hold you in n track etc) I wouldn't bother too much now I know whats involved. Everything else has a compromise like no cold air, no music for touring between tracks, too much sound in cabin, non OEM shut lines and quality (AM plastic panels etc) IMO.
Its easier/cheaper to become a better driver to save 1-2s a lap. Even easier is to fit some stickier tyres and you dont even need to be a better driver LOL!
Just my 2c worth. Easy to get carried away with these cars. I have the T shirt and the account balance to prove it. Somethings arent worth the hassle/money.time...
10-23-2015, 07:10 PM
Rennlist Member
That twitchy go kart feel is very noticeable on a road tyre shod 996T but maybe earlier cars with their different rear suspension mask the effect? Picked mine up a year or so ago after ordering a couple of mm a side of toe out up front but boomeranged back from the first motorway turn-off and told them she was driving like a Camry so they must've toed her in instead. Found and fixed on the spot but it certainly illustrated how big a difference it makes to how she drives.
here are the factory sheets. You can see rear toe doesnt change much between the settings even with the heavy comp stuff. Notice rear toe stays same up to RS models and even with seriously competition based settings (RSR, Cup etc) front toe is still in...
Ive added my August sheet before NITT 2014. After SITT I decided neutral from toe was still too fidgety on the road and as I do use the car alot on the road between tracks I elected to have some slight toe dialed in and it feels better for it even if it may have dulled ultimate turn it a tad on the track it instilled better confidence which in teh end gained me more than it lost me...
Its worth adding that the track (function of wheel offset and tyre width as well as axles length etc) and tyre type (compound and stiffness of sidewall) make huge differences here.
You cannot make final geo settings till you have decided on tyre choice and understand the impact it has on setting up the car. Once you have experience with a tyre (temp, compound, camber preference, sidewall firmness) then you can make better choices.
10-23-2015, 07:38 PM
Rennlist Member
Of interest to 964 owners https://www.facebook.com/groups/3670...8524989966591/
I've given up posting pics on Rennlist. Too hard.
I've given up posting pics on Rennlist. Too hard.
10-23-2015, 08:03 PM
Drifting
I look forward to getting the 911T on the scales. Not much you can pull out of that unless you go glass body panels. I look at the complete car and there is just a handfull of things to still bolt on - couldn't be any more than 30-35kg of interior all up.
Wouldn't have a clue but I'm picking 1000 - 1050kg. Maybe a tad more as it is all steel.
Wouldn't have a clue but I'm picking 1000 - 1050kg. Maybe a tad more as it is all steel.
10-23-2015, 08:22 PM
Rennlist Member
Getting close Dave. Cant wait.
Must say anything sub 1200 handles totally differently than anything over.In a world of unlimited resources my 993 would be 1200kg and look/function the same as it does today. Loosing that 100+ kg would cost $50K done right Id say. Cheaper to buy an old timer aye.
Here is a video Im sure all you FB junkies have already seen. I love how it captures the spirit. I think I'm one of the longest continuous RSG air cooled owners on here with my 15 years in the old girl coming up - and we have been on almost 60,000 km of journeys from every corner of the country, many 2+week holidays, East cape beaches, race tracks and Targa. So I understand the attraction. And the fact the $$$ dont matter. Im also building patina. My only regret is having that damn clear film put on 10 years ago. I'm having it moved in Jan and I need to follow close behind a few of you on the road and track for a year or two to even up the front stone chips!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoX_...ature=youtu.be
Must say anything sub 1200 handles totally differently than anything over.In a world of unlimited resources my 993 would be 1200kg and look/function the same as it does today. Loosing that 100+ kg would cost $50K done right Id say. Cheaper to buy an old timer aye.
Here is a video Im sure all you FB junkies have already seen. I love how it captures the spirit. I think I'm one of the longest continuous RSG air cooled owners on here with my 15 years in the old girl coming up - and we have been on almost 60,000 km of journeys from every corner of the country, many 2+week holidays, East cape beaches, race tracks and Targa. So I understand the attraction. And the fact the $$$ dont matter. Im also building patina. My only regret is having that damn clear film put on 10 years ago. I'm having it moved in Jan and I need to follow close behind a few of you on the road and track for a year or two to even up the front stone chips!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoX_...ature=youtu.be