Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
12-31-2014, 07:50 AM
Three Wheelin'
IMO light weight gives a responsiveness that can't be replicated with power. Having said that you don't get that sledgehammer effect in acceleration in a light weight even with the same power to weight. The Targa car is the closest with Turbo running a high torque set up due to restrictor but Hp not that high. 911 feels light and with no power assist on anything very direct, though the touch on brakes and steering moderately heavy. And the Fraser light in the extreme, every other car feels a bit sloppy compared to this especially in the steering, which is very direct due to very small wheel and no slop at all. just a small move from the straight ahead position moves the car immediately. The responsiveness of everything on this car - a 2 inch gear change movement, lwfw, steering, open and low to the ground small high revving motor, etc makes it just a hoot to drive on trackdays and is why I like it so much.
The only thing that would make the 911 better is a better gearbox. My 915 is the best of a few I have driven but even with a factory 'short shift' kit feels like a 1 foot change compared to the 2 inch fraser. (I am exaggerating a bit) But you just change your expectations when you get into it.
You can feel more in a lw car so definitely everyone should try one on track. The best thing would be to do an instruction day in a formula ford or similar. Will learn a lot. Its what got me started in motorsport many years ago getting tuition from an 18 year old Murph, at Manfield in in a formula ford.
The only thing that would make the 911 better is a better gearbox. My 915 is the best of a few I have driven but even with a factory 'short shift' kit feels like a 1 foot change compared to the 2 inch fraser. (I am exaggerating a bit) But you just change your expectations when you get into it.
You can feel more in a lw car so definitely everyone should try one on track. The best thing would be to do an instruction day in a formula ford or similar. Will learn a lot. Its what got me started in motorsport many years ago getting tuition from an 18 year old Murph, at Manfield in in a formula ford.
12-31-2014, 03:02 PM
Rennlist Member
Happy New Year to all Porsche tragics.
Doug, all good for the 7th to see the latest addition to you ever changing fleet. As you can see I've started investing more in Herman, anticipating Lola's return.
Doug, all good for the 7th to see the latest addition to you ever changing fleet. As you can see I've started investing more in Herman, anticipating Lola's return.
12-31-2014, 04:21 PM
Rennlist Member
(give Macca something to chase)
12-31-2014, 04:29 PM
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Kapiti - New Zealand
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Happy New Year to you all!
Here's some tips for you men for 2015. Macca, Annette was watching this over my shoulder and you can guess what bit she almost spat her coffee out at lol.
Here's some tips for you men for 2015. Macca, Annette was watching this over my shoulder and you can guess what bit she almost spat her coffee out at lol.
12-31-2014, 04:54 PM
Rennlist Member
Just need to be the fastest air cooled car on the day, which is getting easier as cars retire to join the shine and show brigade. Now I just have to watch for Dave because I know he'll be hunting 964s 
I was going to investigate the possibility of using Scott's 993 gearbox if the synchros in mine were too expensive but I then remembered how useful the 4WD has been on and off the track over the last year. When it's wet the C4 dominates and when it's dry I don't appear to be losing anything to Doug, so far....
I was going to investigate the possibility of using Scott's 993 gearbox if the synchros in mine were too expensive but I then remembered how useful the 4WD has been on and off the track over the last year. When it's wet the C4 dominates and when it's dry I don't appear to be losing anything to Doug, so far....
12-31-2014, 04:55 PM
Happy New Year to all. And thanks -the shared tips, tragedies (let's have less of those for 2015) and triumphs of this thread have helped make my 2014 and got me out onto new tracks and into vehicles I'd otherwise never have have known.
John - congrats on the Cayenne and thanks for continuing to post your impressions. It looks to be exactly the right horse for your course and your posts have enlightened me as to how well they serve as fast and comfortable mile eaters with heavy tow capacity.
Thanks - can picture it now with the Wakatipu scenery streaming by. Nice!
Very well put Graeme. Know exactly what you are talking about with the light single seaters too, thanks to the Formula Challenge (ex Formula Suzuki) cars. Bit like the difference between fighting with a samurai sword versus a scottish claymore when compared to the 996T. Both get the job done but one is so much more responsive that you always have more options open to you in the tight stuff. Formula One of course combines lightness and big power so you get the best of both worlds, albeit at huge cost.
I'm with Matt in believing that coaching and practice are the most important performance factors though, as most learned skills can be applied to anything with wheels. I need more of both still but already my 'Black Beauty' Integra GSI time at HD is only a second or two off the hottest lap I ran in the Turbo in the dry at my first DE track day with Jonny Reid in the passenger seat.
HP is tricky stuff and I initially lapped a little slower after adding at least 80 more to mine, while getting used to the new throttle response and braking requirements. I added the power to wake it up as a daily driver rather than to shave seconds but now that I'm used to it I'd say there's a second a lap - or maybe two at the very outside - of extra speed in it, all else being equal. This makes sense as there is only something like 10-12 seconds or so of full throttle at Hampton, with the extra power going unused during braking and practically all the cornering. That's with all else staying the same. Add much stickier tyres or upgraded suspension plus maybe a touch more aero, and more of that power can be used, though most of those benefits would have applied to the previous power level anyway.
You'll know this already, but given a similar power to weight ratio, and similar drivetrain (f/r 2WD/AWD) lighter and heavier cars will have similar acceleration to 100kph since it is mainly the inertia of the weight that is being fought there and their ratios are the same. And the lighter one should run rings around the heavy one in the twisties for similar reasons, as cornering is essentially about fighting the inertia (momentum) that wants to take the car straight ahead. Where the bigger power of the heavier car really pays off is in fighting air resistance which goes up geometrically with the square of the speed. So more powerful heavier cars will considerably out-accelerate the lighter, lower-powered car from 100-200, and even more so once above 200kph. A killer advantage at fast tracks like Spa, Le Mans or the Nurburgring - not so much at your Hockenheims or Hampton Downs!
Just returned from a 1,500 km trip in the Cayenne. It didn't miss a beat. Great for the purpose and I can't help thinking that modernising the air cooled 964 platform is the way to go. Retain the character but update the ancillaries. Working air con would be a start. What do you have in mind? I'll be the guinea pig with Specialist Components and have ordered it. I hope it arrives quickly as I have the time now to fit it.
Thanks - can picture it now with the Wakatipu scenery streaming by. Nice!
IMO light weight gives a responsiveness that can't be replicated with power. Having said that you don't get that sledgehammer effect in acceleration in a light weight even with the same power to weight. The Targa car is the closest with Turbo running a high torque set up due to restrictor but Hp not that high. 911 feels light and with no power assist on anything very direct, though the touch on brakes and steering moderately heavy. And the Fraser light in the extreme, every other car feels a bit sloppy compared to this especially in the steering, which is very direct due to very small wheel and no slop at all. just a small move from the straight ahead position moves the car immediately. The responsiveness of everything on this car - a 2 inch gear change movement, lwfw, steering, open and low to the ground small high revving motor, etc makes it just a hoot to drive on trackdays and is why I like it so much.
The only thing that would make the 911 better is a better gearbox. My 915 is the best of a few I have driven but even with a factory 'short shift' kit feels like a 1 foot change compared to the 2 inch fraser. (I am exaggerating a bit) But you just change your expectations when you get into it.
You can feel more in a lw car so definitely everyone should try one on track. The best thing would be to do an instruction day in a formula ford or similar. Will learn a lot. Its what got me started in motorsport many years ago getting tuition from an 18 year old Murph, at Manfield in in a formula ford.
The only thing that would make the 911 better is a better gearbox. My 915 is the best of a few I have driven but even with a factory 'short shift' kit feels like a 1 foot change compared to the 2 inch fraser. (I am exaggerating a bit) But you just change your expectations when you get into it.
You can feel more in a lw car so definitely everyone should try one on track. The best thing would be to do an instruction day in a formula ford or similar. Will learn a lot. Its what got me started in motorsport many years ago getting tuition from an 18 year old Murph, at Manfield in in a formula ford.
I'm with Matt in believing that coaching and practice are the most important performance factors though, as most learned skills can be applied to anything with wheels. I need more of both still but already my 'Black Beauty' Integra GSI time at HD is only a second or two off the hottest lap I ran in the Turbo in the dry at my first DE track day with Jonny Reid in the passenger seat.
HP is tricky stuff and I initially lapped a little slower after adding at least 80 more to mine, while getting used to the new throttle response and braking requirements. I added the power to wake it up as a daily driver rather than to shave seconds but now that I'm used to it I'd say there's a second a lap - or maybe two at the very outside - of extra speed in it, all else being equal. This makes sense as there is only something like 10-12 seconds or so of full throttle at Hampton, with the extra power going unused during braking and practically all the cornering. That's with all else staying the same. Add much stickier tyres or upgraded suspension plus maybe a touch more aero, and more of that power can be used, though most of those benefits would have applied to the previous power level anyway.
You'll know this already, but given a similar power to weight ratio, and similar drivetrain (f/r 2WD/AWD) lighter and heavier cars will have similar acceleration to 100kph since it is mainly the inertia of the weight that is being fought there and their ratios are the same. And the lighter one should run rings around the heavy one in the twisties for similar reasons, as cornering is essentially about fighting the inertia (momentum) that wants to take the car straight ahead. Where the bigger power of the heavier car really pays off is in fighting air resistance which goes up geometrically with the square of the speed. So more powerful heavier cars will considerably out-accelerate the lighter, lower-powered car from 100-200, and even more so once above 200kph. A killer advantage at fast tracks like Spa, Le Mans or the Nurburgring - not so much at your Hockenheims or Hampton Downs!
12-31-2014, 05:04 PM
Rennlist Member
12-31-2014, 05:21 PM
Rennlist Member
Happy New Year too all RLers & RSGers.
2014 was a massive year. We had the SITT and NITT, Targa Bambina, plenty of Playdays HFD action and the beginning of the end (oops meant the 2K Cup!). Pete became a PCNZ race rookie in 2014. There was also a flurry of purchases and sales. Pete imported the Cayman S, Tony bought a Cayman S, my 991 GT3 landed in NZ, Chris M bought a 997S, Neil bought a race car and Davids project started to take shape. On the down side we had a few accidents too. Unavoidable given the sport we enjoy.
2015 is shaping up well. I dont think it will be a huge a year as 2014 for many of us but still plenty to look forward to with Neils PCNZ race rookie unveil, Targa Bambina (hopefully Walt, myself, Chris B and Doug H to join the usual crew of Ron, Richard and Co). Then there are normal Paydays and of course the NITT. 2016 will hopefully bring the first RSG Europe trip!
2015 kick starts with a well subscribed private half day track hire on 13 Jan - a format that could well eventually in part replace or compliment the regular 12-15 minute per hour Playday RSG sessions dependant on how successful the format is. I have high hopes for this format as it enables ultimate flexibility and up to 240 mins of track time without the need to go all out from the gate 12 minutes every 60. The ability ti play with set up, take a passenger or instructor and learn from others will also be great.
P.S. John. Given Paul's retired from air cooled track work (for now at least) you have Seans 1.16.31 and my 1.17.23 to aim for with your new horse power. Join us on the 13th. Im aiming to get into the 16s with Stu Owers help. On the 20th Im having the 993 set up for Targa when I return and given my limited time in NZ after May 2015 I probably will not track her again for the rest of the year instead using the 991 GT3 in NITT 2015 as the easier, more hassle free option.
2014 was a massive year. We had the SITT and NITT, Targa Bambina, plenty of Playdays HFD action and the beginning of the end (oops meant the 2K Cup!). Pete became a PCNZ race rookie in 2014. There was also a flurry of purchases and sales. Pete imported the Cayman S, Tony bought a Cayman S, my 991 GT3 landed in NZ, Chris M bought a 997S, Neil bought a race car and Davids project started to take shape. On the down side we had a few accidents too. Unavoidable given the sport we enjoy.
2015 is shaping up well. I dont think it will be a huge a year as 2014 for many of us but still plenty to look forward to with Neils PCNZ race rookie unveil, Targa Bambina (hopefully Walt, myself, Chris B and Doug H to join the usual crew of Ron, Richard and Co). Then there are normal Paydays and of course the NITT. 2016 will hopefully bring the first RSG Europe trip!
2015 kick starts with a well subscribed private half day track hire on 13 Jan - a format that could well eventually in part replace or compliment the regular 12-15 minute per hour Playday RSG sessions dependant on how successful the format is. I have high hopes for this format as it enables ultimate flexibility and up to 240 mins of track time without the need to go all out from the gate 12 minutes every 60. The ability ti play with set up, take a passenger or instructor and learn from others will also be great.
P.S. John. Given Paul's retired from air cooled track work (for now at least) you have Seans 1.16.31 and my 1.17.23 to aim for with your new horse power. Join us on the 13th. Im aiming to get into the 16s with Stu Owers help. On the 20th Im having the 993 set up for Targa when I return and given my limited time in NZ after May 2015 I probably will not track her again for the rest of the year instead using the 991 GT3 in NITT 2015 as the easier, more hassle free option.
12-31-2014, 05:44 PM
Drifting
Just need to be the fastest air cooled car on the day, which is getting easier as cars retire to join the shine and show brigade. Now I just have to watch for Dave because I know he'll be hunting 964s
I was going to investigate the possibility of using Scott's 993 gearbox if the synchros in mine were too expensive but I then remembered how useful the 4WD has been on and off the track over the last year. When it's wet the C4 dominates and when it's dry I don't appear to be losing anything to Doug, so far....
I was going to investigate the possibility of using Scott's 993 gearbox if the synchros in mine were too expensive but I then remembered how useful the 4WD has been on and off the track over the last year. When it's wet the C4 dominates and when it's dry I don't appear to be losing anything to Doug, so far....
12-31-2014, 05:57 PM
Drifting
Join Date: May 2013
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There has to be a market for a conversion kit. From what I've read the conversion (964/993) is an electronic mare of a job. Easier on early cars which are almost purely mechanical. Steve R knows the secrets. Lots of time involved.
12-31-2014, 06:00 PM
Rennlist Member
Dean says a 6spd transplant into tips isn't fiscally feasible today. Rasso says it's doable but won't quote cost. The price of good G50 box reconditioned these days is pushing on 10-14k. The labour, ecus, electrical and abs suff etc surely would amount to another 10k. I don't think it's viable till 964 manuals exceed 100k down under and frankly I don't see that quite happening in this current cycle.
I considered Scott's gearbox earlier in 2914 before rebuilding mine. At 5-6k a fair proposition but with unknown internals and likely a shot factory LSD for the labour of the swap you'd be mad not to open it up and replace anything worn and re plate the LSD by which time you have added 6-9k in parts and labour. No free lunches here I reckon....
I considered Scott's gearbox earlier in 2914 before rebuilding mine. At 5-6k a fair proposition but with unknown internals and likely a shot factory LSD for the labour of the swap you'd be mad not to open it up and replace anything worn and re plate the LSD by which time you have added 6-9k in parts and labour. No free lunches here I reckon....
12-31-2014, 06:37 PM
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Morning all, read thread https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...96-c2-tip.html in regard to tipo to manual conv. I once aSked Autothority about it - didn't really want to know