Macca

Matt. Thanks for pulling me up on a few points there. As usual I was glossing over a few facts. Yes it is definitely a complicated subject. As you say the thing that makes it very hard is progressive rates vs linear spring.

Its very difficult to find real world experience. Jackal and Bill Verburg were the two guys I contacted directly for feedback and Bill has been instrumental to providing me settings data for track in recent years. From memory he used PSS9/10 from 2008-2010 around teh time of the post you linked to although Im pretty sure now he uses a custom valved system 600/800.

My understanding is the main springs for the PSS10 are 200/400. The keepers

Here is a little intro from Jackels site. He has a 6.1GT3 and 993 and its one of the bibles of DYI reference for many 993 owners. The link is here and select "PSS10" from the side bar. http://www.jackals-forge.com/lotus/a

"Bilstein PSS10

I want to preface this with a small note. I think i'm probably one of the few people who have owned (and therefore used extensively) all of the following 993 suspension choices: standard Monroes, KW variant 3, Bilstein PSS10. I have also test driven (on multiple occasions) the very popular Bilstein HD, 993RS suspension, Porsche M030 and the standard 993TT suspension. I've also driven Targas as well. Not sure if they have different suspension for their increased mass but just in case they do ....

993 Suspension advice is something that gets asked for a lot especially on the internet but sadly its also throws up a lot of poor information. Most people are just keen to recommend what THEY PERSONALLY OWN, without necessarily considering the wishes, needs and past car history/driving style of the person seeking the advice. We all like to think of our own choices as being 'the best' and the natural tendency for many is to seek verification through internet chatrooms. The chances are though many people only ever owned the one suspension system, or if you're lucky one other as well which was already well past its best when they changed it (so not worth referring to in the first instance). To complicate matters further there are usually one or two other individuals who are keen to just stir up trouble and confusion in general whilst masquerading as someone knowledgable with something genuninely worthwhile to contribute.

Well, having owned 3 of the most popular and leading 'prosumer' suspension choices and tried numerous others including the factory Porsche options whether they be on standard 993's, RS's, Targas or turbocharged models I'll add in my unbiased two cents here and now. None of the options I know of or that we've talked about here are a bad choice and it really is so subjective and up to the individual and what he/she likes. Go out, get some test drives, meet some heads, sit in people's cars and make up your own mind. I've driven cars that I've found perfectly acceptable that others have hated with a vengenance. I also found certain 993's pretty appaling, the very same cars that others have marvelled at and treasured over every square inch of UK bitumen they've ever swallowed. Don't take advice, go out and try, and when people use words like hard, soft, comfortable, smooth, tramilining, bumpy.... these words don't mean anything unless you are THAT actual person speaking them."

His comparison between the KW v3 (171/512) and the PSS10 is of interest to anyone with a 993 here wanting a real world comparo. Hes an engineer type and when you look at his DIYs on his front driveway you start to respect the guy. Cant be warm doing that in a UK winter!

At the end of the day you are correct its very subjective. Only those "prototyping" probably have a firm view between set ups.

Its made worse by ARBs, wheel and tyre weights and the settings on the shock which means even if someone like Luke hoped in my car and drove it on current settings (NITT settings for example) it may feel way different from a heavier car with heavier wheel/tyre combo and geo with the same shocks.

The only thing I know for certain is that on the road my 993 with PSS10 rides much better than my 993RS did (it had new stock factory shocks fitted before I purchased it). I have no idea on the track as I never took it on the track but on the road it skipped and jumped a fair bit and was very firm (as John was alluding to). The 993RS also had a far heavier 18" wheel/tyre combo than I am using on the 993 it might be added (and perhaps that is part of the answer here).

At the end of the day you only gain experience in these things typically from trying them. Otherwise you have to rely on other peoples opinion. We dont have many data sets locally for the 993. Only Paul and my cars neither of which appear to be particularly handicapped at the track. However I for one would love someone on here to import and fit an alternative set up so I can myself understand the benefits and disadvantages.

Here is one of the charts often referred to by 993 owners with annotation to source. Useful to keep on file as a starting point of you are looking into the subject.

John McM

Dave and I are keen to do Enduros as well. We'd need to look at the rules, but right now I think the Grinch is the only fully compliant car. It's also had the most money thrown at it.

Maxem

I had a fang in a 6 R. Loved the ignition cut on the upshift and blips on the down. They are good value but for 7 to 10 more, you can get into a '14 GTi new shape. 350Nm matches the older R but it is 37kw down. Might not be much in it.
I am weary of the DSG situation. I specifically avoided that trans in the Mrs's VW. I made enquiries and VW nz have slapped a 5 year tranny warranty on all existing cars registered nz new. That would drive my decision to get an almost new one and get out of it a few years later before time is up. I've had several VAG cars, and all had their niggles except the current one so far.

Macca

Walt. Would you believe Ive not yet used launch control! Ive launched using paddle neutral (pull both paddles back to disengage clutch then slip your fingers and dump it). It will rev to 9000 in paddle neutral!

Actually its the e60 we were looking at as Dave knows. They are basically all NZ new (as not sold in Asia) and for under 20K you can buy one with around 110k km on it that has full service history and looks well kept. There are about a dozen or so on TM from 13000-20000 NZD! Exceptional value. I love the e39 too and there is one of those for sale too for $7500 NZD! I believe they essentially use the same engine - infact that oil burner 3.0L is one of the worlds more revered engine having been used with few design changes in 2-3 marques over the last 14 years from what I understand.

Jo used to complain about the fuel usage on the M5 and never used the performance so I figured a 2004 e60 530d was a great low depreciation hack for visiting friends and the odd longer trip in NZ. Saves renting cars each visit. The idea is still in my mind but the logistics and ongoing costs and compliance of a third vehicle weigh heavy on the mind...

Matt. Yes the 996 GT3 is as close to the earlier 964/993RS concept as it gets with GT3 there is no doubt. Its one of the reasons they will become classics and also why they seem to me to be such exceptional value right now. I enjoyed mine although it never saw the track. My only disappointments were the interior quality (typical of the generation) and the exterior asthetic (personal and they do now appear more attractive with time).

Pel

Dave I have a 2011 golf with 7 speed DSG, brought it new as a runaround for work. The way the gearbox works is great, gets the most out of a small engine. But feels weak and has proven unreliable, the cars done 50kms, gonna sell it as I don't trust without warranty. Would buy another new one and do the same thing, but considering a B5 RS4 or water cooler, I deal with tradesmen and don't want to appear pretentious though. If you go with a golf, my advice would be to sell before the warranty expires or get another car. Its also perceived as a girls car.

Pel

No offence meant if anyone else has a golf, I cop a bit of flack for mine.

John McM

My middle aged wife forgives you! Hers is a 2006 GTI. Hasn't had any problems so far.

Not sure who drives the GTI at the Mende household.

peterC2S

Cool - roadkill... (I mean road cones)!

kiwi 911

If you are going to be a smart ***, at least get it right - 'mobile' road cones........

John McM

Mobile being the operative word here. We'll pass all of the DNF and DNS no matter how slow we go so don't crow too quickly......

O2GO

Jeez, a lot of words written in the last 24 hours :-D

Easy on the age comments. I did around 7k almost continuous in the '64 for the SITT and, unless you're drinking something special up there on the rock, I have a few years on you.

I haven't had a major issue/expense in 7 years of p-car ownership, apart from some concrete and rubber impacts that were certainly not the car's fault. This must mean my time will come, aye.

Get your order in on Richard's GTI trade in. He replaces them every couple of years, is a man with a big grunty Porsche, and yet waxes lyrical about the GTI.

996tnz

For those doubting that Jap cars can win endurance races, who knows what this is (obligatory Porsche content in the form of the gearbox):

mjg

Think Fast by Neil Roberts (ex-Swift Engineering) is a good high-ish level version of race car preparation. Also Prepare to Win, Tune to Win, and Engineer to Win by Carroll Smith (old but still contain stuff not well covered anywhere else). If you want to get deeper than that, I've got a growing stack of stuff to recommend on suspension, chassis, and aerodynamics... haven't got anything good on engines yet!

I'm by far not an expert on these topics, but since I started planning to put together a race car in the near future I've been doing some self study to get a better understanding of the whole system to avoid being too reliant on following advice blindly, etc.

996tnz

They did have a secret weapon, beyond their reliability. If you see anyone like the below, please bring them to the enduro:
]

Macca

Doug. Firstly you are the most hardcore touring driver on here (no one will deny) - full stop! But you also had the sofa seats in your 964...

Richard has the new 3 door Golf R DSG. He traded his 2008? GTI in (it had been re chipped). It was DSG too from memory though he never mentioned any problems with the gearbox....hes definitaely a big fan of these.