John McM

Golf has incredible carrying capacity. It will easily swallow four tyred 996TT wheels.

nzskater

Personally I'd go for a used MK6 Golf R. The price is right. Great car, handles well, lots of power for a small hatch, and as John has mentioned an almost Tardis like amount of storage space which alongside the 4WD would make it a great ski field workhorse. I had a MK5 TDI before my 911; loved that car. So cheap to run day to day, lots of torque and could comfortably cart 4 people around the island for a long weekend. That is until the DSG gearbox presented issues intermittently and I had the dealer buy it back off me.
Unlike those overtly masculine Integras he has sitting around...
On the second vehicle train of thought, someone needs to run this as the RSG support truck: http://www.trademe.co.nz/804644998

Macca

Matt. Good point re the spring hardness. I researched this when choosing the PSS10:

Factory 993 C2 F/R lb/in= 150/300
993RS = 246/457
PSS10 = 225-250/400-685

As you can see its technically possible to get the PSS10 in the same range as the factory 993RS. However I confess on SITT I was running the fronts at 6 and the rears at 8 so was probably a little softer than the 993RS at the front and a little firmer at the rear. The PSS10 isnt the best set up at replicating the factory ratios for an RS.

The really interesting this is as you start to look at the 993 GT2, RSR and Cup cars you start to see a considerable difference in front to rear ratio. The front and rear spring rates get closer and closer together the lower and lighter (and more aggressive the geo).

For example 993 Cup was 1142/1256!

The PSS10 coil-over is an excellent fast road shock. It can give you a good range up to 993RS settings but my personal opinion it isnt correctly valved beyond that point. Even the H&R coilovers for the 993 arent perfect - they have a better stiffness range at the front (up to 333) but the range at the rear fall short of 435 ln/in.

I deliberated over this a long while. At the time Ohlins didnt have anything for the relics. KW3 I couldnt get enough data and real world experience (the only real world guy was the UK Rennlister "Jackles" who has his own website and created a perfect 993RS replica - he went to PSS10 from KW3 for the 993 and preferred the PSS10 for some reason I can no longer recall).

I worked really closely with the manufacturer of JIC as they had a coilover system you could select the springs with and it was a really advanced shock at reasonable price complete with monoball and front camber platforms. Unfortunately they couldnt deliver and I thik they are only now 5 years later getting their new version out there and I have read little feedback.

In the end I went for PSS10 for reliability and because it could pretty much cover the RS spring rate range. I always felt my RS was about as firm as I would want to go on NZ roads. I still pretty much feel that way.

My factory comfort spec 993RS came in at 1305kg with half tank gas. My 993 is probably sitting around 1315kg today with the half cage.

My advise for anyone buying an old 993 and wanting to improve its handling and capability is the same as its been from day 1. Research then do everything at once to remove the cost issue of having to strip it all out and do it multiple times. The labour adds up here. Regardless of what others say its my experience (and Im not alone) that coilovers are far superior than the stock strut design for road AND track. My road holding was far more composed changing out HD for PSS10. The price difference is nominal in the greater scheme of things (probably $2000, twice the price of having it all ripped out and done again with a new geo!). For a nice combination of road and track I would recommend toe PSS10 with a firmer ARB and new front A arm poly bushes and replace the rear control arms if worn. I would stop short of monoballs & camber plates but I would look to increase stiffness with the front three piece strut brace. I would replace CV and wheel bearings same time as it saves new geo and these are wear items. I would set geo at RS +10-20mm to avoid need for RS uprights and tie rods (bump steer). In short Id replicate Pauls set up minus the solid re frame bushes as those are a hefty labour job and the return is only at the limit. Id spend my time learning the best settings for the shocks on road vs track. Paul got down to a 1.16.2 in his 993 using PSS10, firmer ARB and new bushings (abliet with solid rear mounts as well) and that proof enough that the gear can produce the goods. Beyond that it starts to become a diminishing scale of returns. Done once and properly with bearings and front CVs the job should come in less than 10K NZD for all parts and labour if purchased smartly. The difference over HD with set springs is maybe 2000 NZD. Its an extra cost well spent for adjust ability and improved control of rebound and compression.

The other option is to re valve existing shocks but you need a wealth of experience to know what lb/in to select for your vehicle and the style and type of driving you will do. When my PSS10s show signes of wear I will custom re valve then using the knowledge I have learnt at that time from the cars handling but its not something to jump into without prior understanding.

All IMO of course!

Macca

Jo had a VR6 auto. Was underwhelming. I drove Deans CCS Mk5+Mk6 GTI a few times (DSG & Manual) as a loan car over the years. Handled very well but the external asthetics looked like the Koreans had got a hold of the CAD drawings and spilt Kimchi over them before they went to production.

Jake thats a rad combi ride. I reckon it would suit Paul so he can be of use at track days now he has a show car and no go car ;-)

996tnz

Know what you mean. Haven't driven a Golf but have sat in a mid-range one, hated the seats, and looked for another car. I liked the look of my brother's Passat until I drove it and found it impossible to modulate the brakes on - they'd immediately grab 10 or 20 percent. Though it was faulty but the dealer said they all did that (brake assist 'feature'), so my brother returned it and got a BMW 530 instead. Hopefully the VW enthusiast versions are not as mullered, but have been very wary of any VW product since, and am really hoping they don't stuff up Porsche the same way. Not sure if VW had a hand in the 911 handbrake lever deletion or if it was an own goal, but that's already a bridge too far in my book.

More happily - just realised Porsche still hold the Le Mans laps record, albeit jointly:

1971 - Porsche 917K (van Lennep, Marko) - 397 laps
2010 - Audi R15 TDI plus - 397 laps



Granted the FIA forced two chicanes onto the Mulsanne straight in 1990, so the Audi did an extra 75km and had to slow twice extra, but that remains a seriously impressive performance from 1971, not bettered even in the 20 odd years with the proper straight.

John McM

An older one. Sibling rivalry

Macca

Walt interesting feedback on the VW's.

What's your brothers take on the 530? This is one of the few (used) cars Im looking at for Jo at the moment. I drove one 1000km in Germany last December on the auto bahn as well and was shocked at how much torque that engine makes. It cost me one tank of gas in 1000km!

The electric park brake is a fail IMO. All new Porches have them including the 991 (and GT3!). I still cant get the push/pull action right! Along with the electronic key (whats wrong with a good old shank of steel!!!!) they are two of the features I dont like. The only nice thing about the electronic park brake is it self disengages if you pull away forgetting to release it. Alternatively it re engages if you are in park and open the door (a feature that gives me the sh*ts). So glad the car doesnt have the econo start stop engine thingy the all seem to have these days. The new M3 has that and it drove me mad. Turned it off to find each time you start the car you have to manually disengage it (so the rep claimed)....

mjg

It gets tricky to discuss because this stuff doesn't seem to be well documented, people post averages for progressive springs instead of indicating they're actually progressive, are sloppy about notation for different configurations, etc.

The PSS10 rates are quoted as if they're progressive, but they look like a main/tender spring linear configuration to me (https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...ml#post5852465 agrees). Without getting too complicated, that'd give you an effective rate of 118lb/in front and 252lb/in rear until the tenders block up after X amount of travel (I don't know how long the springs are to give that number), after which you're at 225lb/in and 400lb/in. So it's always softer than the 993RS, and by the nature of the setup a dual spring system going to feel very different to the configuration in the RS.

It doesn't work that way. The damper configuration does have a large effect on the feel of the car, but it doesn't affect the spring rates in any way.

(at least simple terms, it's more complicated if you factor in the whole system and look at wheel rates, with adjustable gas pressures in some dampers, etc.)

It's generally pretty hard to get specifics about how various package coilover systems work, which makes it difficult to compare them objectively or make finer adjustments to suit your needs (frustrating!). On the other hand, it also gets very complicated very quickly, so I can understand that the details are going to be useless to 99% of the potential market for these things.

Obsessed

Ahem... doesn't that leave you with a big itch and nothing to scratch it with?

996tnz

The one you drove was probably newer. His is an E39 and he just loves it. Quality doesn't go out of fashion I guess. Having had an E34 540 and an E38 750 I have great respect for the performance and integrity of the things. Respect for their reliability too, as long as you don't believe the 'lifetime transmission fill' hype and don't mind replacing the odd radiator when the crappy plastic end tanks die.

Couldn't bring myself to consider a Bangled replacement BMW and the Mercs I tested (E55 kompressor, S600 and one or other ML) were allergic to corners and had tacky interiors by 750 standards, so I settled for the Audi allroad as the best all-rounder back up car for the family until another could tick more boxes.

BTW, looking at that Road and Track PCOTY 2014, I was very impressed to see that the 991 GT3 launches at 6500+ rpm with Launch Control. Crazy awesome! Put me down for the passenger seat some time.

964X33

Have you got a good book on this Matt or did you major in suspension. I'm keen to learn more about but it is a bit overwhelming when you dip a toe into the subject. Next RSG social could start with an idiot's guide to suspension?

996tnz

^^Seconded. Another difference that is not captured in spring rates is their travel. Some springs are spiral wound (ie small to large diameter) so the coils don't hit themselves under compression, giving much more effective travel and large bump absorption than another spring with the same nominal spring rate that is helically wound and so has the same coil diameter all the way. The second will have you on the bump stops while the first is still doing its job.

kiwi 911

Nice to see you are still lerking Michael, you need to post some pics of the family mate.

We will see how the Intergra goes with providing the HD scratch...........

I am looking to run auto crosses in carparks this year as part of the PCNZ Speed Series - (this is top secret - so don't spread it over the internet)

So between this ^^^, the 2K cup, the PCNZ Speed Series, being a co-driver with Walt in the Targa Tour, and a few Macca, or Dougie, and Ron's runs - I should get my fill for 2015.

kiwi 911

^^^ It's early days, but I would keen to do an integra team (or 2) in the enduro's this year too if others are keen?

996tnz

Keen as.