I believe that we are talking about cars made in this century.....

 

The C8 in a few years will look outdated just like when you look at at a 90's Vette no pedigree and it will rattle squeak, leak and make funny noises like most other GM products.

 

Only if the design and build quality is worse than the C5. Our C5 Z06 is, objectively, the most reliable car we’ve ever owned and after 10,000+ *track* miles it is no-more squeaky, rattly, or funny-noise making than the Porsches.

Word. Parts are cheap. WSM is great. Good techs abound.

And if you get it shiny side down you just go get another one.

The only thing about the Corvette that doesn’t make sense to me is why the rear view always looks like an industrial design disaster.

 

I think they did a great job with the C8 - what a giant step forward. I don't care whether a car is made in the US, Germany, China or Mexico - I care about the quality of the design, manufacturing and performance of the car. I believe you make a good product anywhere in the world.

I haven't see n the C8 in person, but the interior looks pretty upscale from the pics - especially at that price point.

At first glance I love the design. Now after a while, I'm finding it over done. It's probably a bit too flashy for me - but I tend to prefer elegant flowing lines over the sharp creases.

What's surprising to me on this thread is that no one seems bothered by the size of C8 - 4 inches longer and 3 wider than the 911. I think that's material. My 911 is a daily driver and one reason I love it is because of it's size. It's one reason I prefer the narrow body 911 - easier to park, generally easier to navigate. I had a Maserati Gran Turismo, and even that car was large/long when trying to navigate tight spots/parking spaces - I can't imagine what that C8 is going to be like.

While there are things I don't like about the 911, the packaging is spot on for me - I love the back seats - not for carrying passengers, but because it's useful for carrying stuff, and very importantly, it makes the cabin less claustrophobic than a Cayman for example. It's just the right combination of interior space and overall size/dimensions for daily driving. This is one of the reasons I think the 911 has done so well over it's life span - it's not just a superb driving experience, it's a superb overall package.

 

So was the previous version Vette made in this century and how does it hold up after use? Let's move to the 2000's.
Actually don't know why I engaged here as I'm not a 992 customer yet nor will I be a C8 customer at any time. No criticisms of the car itself just not interested.

 

Yes, let's.

 

Ok you win. The Vettes the better value. Please post your thoughts and driving impressions after picking it up.
I did say I thought it would be a good car.

 

Wow that is terrible

 

Any way you slice it, Corvette has done a great job. They have been making faster progress than Porsche, for base models, for quite some time, ever since the C5.

Let’s not forget what Hyundai and Kia accomplished back when Honda was on top. They are now top 5 in quality.

When you are the top dog (Porsche) and get just about everything right, improvements are hard to come by.

My vote is still on Porsche as the better brand. The small details can matter a lot. But you have to hand it to Corvette, this is one fine example and quite an achievement.

 

Not saying you're wrong. If you put a 993 up against a C4, Porsche's quality advantage will indeed be obvious.

But let's come back in 30 years and compare a 991 with a C7 or a 992 with a C8, and see if that still holds true.

I'll bet the 991-C7 matchup will be a wash, given two examples that have been reasonably well cared-for. And I'll bet the 992 will actually lose to an equally well-maintained C8. There are too many cut-rate interior surfaces that will accumulate fine-grained scratches no matter how careful the owner is. Also, lots of surfaces that will never really look clean after a few years' exposure to everyday dust, dirt, and grime.

 

^^^^Have you seen a cut away of the C8 - it uses a bolt together construction method - this will not last. Also, the types of steels in the main components are quite different. Go and put a custom built cage into a modern Porsche - you will always get the same feedback e.g. built like tanks (due to the use a very high qaulity steels in key structural members).

 

Take a look at the construction diagrams in the Porsche aftersales tech documents sometime. Lots of electrochemically-incompatible metals, joined with lots of rivets, screws, and clinch joints, and probably adhesives to boot. I doubt there's anything inherently worse about the bolts GM is using.

 

They mainly use bolts to try and save weight - its a fallacy. Seam welding and a variety of other techniques are used to maintain constant and high rigidity where possible. The spot weld and glue technique Porsche uses saves both weight and provides a lot of rigidity particularly when melded with high quality, very high tensile strength steels. However its certainly more expensive than bolts and thicker more conventional materials.

Also the C8 weight distribution seems to be the same as the GT3 RS e.g. 39/61 one has little understeer, the other has a lot of understeer. In the hands of Matt Farah it didn't look good.

I was expecting a lot more from the C8 and would still take a GT4 or Spyder over this offering - don't know what the excuse can be for building a heavy, under steering mid-engined car in this day and age.

As far as I can tell the only quality component on the car is the suspension system (not neccessarily the geometry in the C8).

Having said that I'm glad they built it - it gives them a starting point to improve from a neccesity given Corvette were at an evolutionary dead end.

The other point being there is so little point to these high HP cars on public roads - whether they be a P100D, Hellcat, ZR1, various AMGs etc. Personally I spend a lot of time in a 981 Cayman GTS on public roads - light, agile, fun and engaging in equal amounts (or a very conventional truck).

I'll make a prediction both Road and Track and Motor Trend will give the C8 the gong for best drivers/performance car - when at first blush its clearly not.

The 600lt is in the line up - which should be the obvious first pick (I think the Pista and Senna maybe too)

 

Just as I thought, the 911 walks it in every category, despite less on paper.

Most upsetting about the C8 is how isolated it appears to feel. Because to me the 991.2 is already wayyyyyy too quiet and isolated inside, and the C8 is even more so? They liken it to a luxury sports sedan in ride and state it's QUIETER than the 9A2 911? That's insane. It must be completely serene in there to feel like that with a raucous old fashioned pushrod naturally aspirated V8 right behind your head. As I imagined, the C8 is no ballerina, and already with that massive weight and clumsily large footprint, it's no visceral backroad carver either.

It's also not great that the steering appears to feel numb, as Porsche electric steering isn't exactly full of feel (I'm sure the 992 improves this), yet it's much more so than the C8's. Then clearly the C8's brakes are nowhere near the engineering perfection the 911 showcases. As typical, the Porsche exemplifies detailed underlying engineering built into its price tag that a GM riding its manufacturers long history of "slapped together engineering" doesn't.

MUCH more embarrassing for the C8 is how it's on such sticky tires (STICKIER than the 992's) and it only puts up a 1.04 lateral G? That's horrible on such tires. A 2015 Panamera GTS on much less sticky tires does the same lateral G. And the C8's figure 8 was embarrassing as well, shockingly bad performance. And leave it to GM to engineer understeer into a mid engine sports car. Must be the same team who authorized the rental car rear end, as both essentially spell out the same thing.

All in all, this is nothing new. Like I predicted, this mid engine Vette vs 911 is like any other Vette vs 911. Performance specs are close, the 911 edges it out despite having much less on paper, the 911 costs a lot more (you get what you pay for), and as usual GM's marketing hype blitz levels (funds) it a "winner" in an American magazine despite it losing in every single metric in the test. Someone even said the rag edited some of their negative sentiments to the C8 to make it sound more positive? The whole thing reeks. GM workers may be on strike but their marketing dept. certainly ain't.

They said the C8 got a fractionally faster 0-60. But then go on to say the C8's chassis isn't as balanced and sorted (that measly 15,000 deg/nm of torsional rigidity vs the 911's 40,000+ deg/nm ain't helping) therefore its 0-60 isn't as consistent. They state poorer roads upset the C8's ability to launch while the 911 will consistently launch all day, everywhere. Even more telling is how the 992 has a faster trap speed, which to me is the ultimate real world truth as it tells you how much power to weight a car truly makes. And in this case, the 992 CS is clearly making more power to weight than the C8, despite paper specs stating otherwise.

Styling wise, imo the 911 looks like a sophisticated, timeless art piece next to a C8 desperate to look "modern and cool" with no real identity other than what it's ripping off from from other manufacturers. It looks clumsy, bulky and massive, and imo will date instantly. The 911, like every 911 before it, will look just as timeless and current in decades as it does today. Which is the beauty of the one sports car on the market that marches to the beat of its own drum, stubbornly maintains its own very minor and evolutionary design change idiom, and doesn't relent from its core mission. That's what makes the 911 the most iconic and successful sports car in history, earning it the largest margins in automotive history. And I say that even whilst thinking the 992's standard front bumper is one of the worst Porsche has ever had.

The one thing I'll give the C8 is they kept a naturally aspirated engine out back. In this day and age, that in itself is exotic and worthy of buying a car. A visceral, connective, dynamic art lost in the generic spool of a homogenous sounding "turbo flat torque curve" modern age. And being a large V8 is extra icing. That in itself was going to be enough for me to root for the C8 over the 992 with an incredibly technically impressive but imo sorely lacking 3.0 turbo engine when it comes to soulfulness, character, and sound (especially in juxtaposition to the N/A flat sixes which imo are second to none in distinction and uniqueness). But GM even blew that card when they made the C8 so apparently quiet that you can whisper a conversation to your passenger, and can hear the soundtrack even less than the far too quiet 3.0 turbo Carrera.

 

You have to give GM credit for keeping the Corvette relevant and interesting. GM has taken a lot more risks with the loyal Corvette customer base than Porsche has with the 911. The C8 needs more development which is not surprising. Time will tell.