Zhao

I also think at this point you should provide something to the conversation rather than asking questions and ignoring the answers, acting condescending, or making strawmen.

You made some vague claim VAG knows what its doing and is a EV leader, back it up. This is all related to the 718EV since it's one of their products

worf928

Yeah. I’m giving up. TShag is doing the fingers-in-my-ears-la-la-la-I’m-not-listening routine.

Or he’s still confused from the New Year’s Party.

TXshaggy

I never said VAG was an EV leader.

I did say that they are the largest car company in the world and sure they’re benchmarking new products against existing.

What I’ve heard here recently is mainly related to Tesla performance, some software company issues, and something about dieselgate…

I guess we could throw in con rod, IMS, finger follower, etc as PAG failures also.

Yes some bad past performance. Yet here we are mostly on here owning PAG products — and largely praising our ICE 718s.

Thought we were here to discuss the upcoming 718 EV and not the 1980s GM Cadillac.

In that vein, what do we know about the 718 EV?

981KMAN

Only that not many Sports Car Buyers want to buy one.....

Schn3ll

How dare you speak ill of the EV orthodoxy?

981KMAN

Oh Great & Wise Schn3ll...... I only speak the truth regarding EV Sports Cars.

worf928

That the Cariad debacle is directly a cause (maybe not the only cause) of the 718EV introduction being delayed by at least one if not two years (based upon original announcement that 718 EV would debut as a MY’24.)

dichael

The most interesting thing to me is what has caused the sw dev delays to begin with? My guess is likely way too many requirements across each group, groups refusing to compromise, and/or sr pag mgt not telling groups to stand down and suck it up when they should have.

tesla doesn’t have a lot of these issues because to @worf928’s point, they’re sw first, and because they don’t have this mish mash of legacy car groups to work through.

worf928

Short Story: Software development, for non-trivial values of ‘development’, that fails spectacularly at companies that don’t know that they are software companies, has as *root cause*, usually, if not almost always, top-level management that has no understanding of software development.

Plenty of recognizable failure modes proceed from that root cause.

What’s my basis for this claim? 30 years of software development, management, executive management, at scale on 24x7x365 mission/vehicle/life-critical software for several companies in several industries and management consulting at many others.

In the Cariad case one recognizable failure mode is - too much staff. When you can lay-off 2000 engineers and still have thousands on staff with a product that’s still-born you had far too many to start with.

As for other modes… <shrug> … in the absence of data pick several of the usual failure modes.

dichael

I respect your experience - my perspective is only that of a PM. Cutting a third of the workforce is dramatic, but they also seem to be doing that by also significantly reducing work:

1. Cut 2,000 of the 6,500 jobs in Germany. Details on locations or departments are scarce, but administrative positions are most likely first in line to be trimmed.
2. Make Cariad more streamlined by divesting itself of about half of the 40 corporate holdings currently in its portfolio. It is expected that several will be sold after an internal review.

source: https://cleantechnica.com/2023/11/01...lays-job-cuts/

TXshaggy

While specific to Macan EV…718 EV will share same PPE platform.

https://www.fiaformulae.com/en/news/...-porsche-macan

wizee

Seems the facelift Taycan will be mighty fast around a track, and from the description it sounds like it can maintain the performance over a wide range of charge states, maintaining lap times over multiple laps around the ring. I wonder how a lighter/smaller 718 EV based on a newer platform will compare.

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2024...ing-34793.html

worf928

From the article:

Seven thousand three hundred eighty pound-feet of torque.

Dat’s a lotta torks…

Schn3ll

That’s the old Colin Chapman trick, “simplify and use an SUV platform for your 2-door sports car” or something like that.

gcurnew

Just a typo. Other sources put torque at 738 lb.ft. https://driving.ca/car-culture/auto-...logy-deep-dive