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Did this dude just say 911s are not an enthusiasts car?!?!?
No, I'm saying there are significantly more buyers that purely buy a 911 as a status symbol moreso than a 718. There are PLENTY of 992 buyers who are enthusiasts, rightfully so.
However, the 992 also caters to this "prestige" customer more than the previous generations, validating the trend I am mentioning (more plush, less MT availability, lower MT take rate, muted exhaust, etc compared to previous generations).
Wow is this thread a fuster cluck. Some seem to think that *their* reason and their priority ordering in the decision to do or buy something is the *only* valid reason and then come up with a list of the derangements others must have in order to not do the same thing for the same reasons and with the same order of priorities.
If I were in the market for an EV I wouldn’t care if a Taycan was slower than a Tesla. I’ve driven two different Teslas and two different Taycans. You couldn’t give me a Tesla. And it’s not about a status symbol, flexing, or walking around swinging a big d18K. Some of you will *never* understand because the reasoning is something not in - and apparently will never be in - your wheelhouse. In some cases no amount of words will make some people understand and possibly accept that someone else’s reasoning might be valid even if different from their own.
And it seems to extend into all topics now no matter how trivial. All of them.
^ lol, first off, i'm a true believer on ev's having some major problems that need to be solved, but that Chicago article is largely horseshiat. I just got through a spat of -38 to -40c weather, with windchill somewhere south of -50c (ya, windchill doesn't affect ambient temps for the basic science people but it does affect how fast a car cools down and retains heat so that matters). Chicago is what, -20c at best? Pff. Those guys are probably morons who left it outside at 10% power and thought they'd warm it up before they drove 20km to charge it. The same morons that drive around on fumes and then run out of gas.
As for our Model 3 in actual cold temps. Its range went into the toilet, maybe 80km usable range max (probably average 450Wh/km, wheras in sept I was averaging 125wh/km), but it actually did great besides that. For more on the power loss, after parking it outside all day at work it took about 15% bat charge to go from -37 to 20c which is crazy, and I would say it lost about 3% from what I remember over that period just sitting (which I've lamented before). I also found out it has quite the limp mode at highway speed at 20% charge. felt like a smart car down on a cylinder. But there has also been no issues charging in close to -40 other than the charge rate is a lot slower on trickle. My wife used the free charging station at her work and it charged at normal pace. I'm amazed it had no quirks for driving it (no funny noises or sounding like its under stress) because a ICE car at cold temps hates life. Telsa design flaws I keep finding from them not knowing how to build cars; the latest is defrost kinda sucks on the side windows, and it's annoying having to select defrost mode every time and how it just blasts max heat as default.
I also noticed one other EV quirk. It puts a lot of power to one wheel and twists the car on ice surfaces. That is an electric motor quirk and they haven't dialed it out with software. You can see this same thing with a electric remote control car like my daughters. Too mcuh power, and it turns slightly every time u start the motion of the car. It's consistently twisting in one direction so it's definitely a EV motor issue. I'm sure it is killing one of my winter tires prematurely from doing that, but we will see by spring time if that is actually the case.
One surprising thing is most of the power loss is not with the climate system. The climate system in -40 actually doesn't use much power to maintain it's temp.
But ya, from an efficiency and dollarwise point of view, a garage is ideal. The warmer it is the more efficient it is. People parking these things on teh street in cold climates without their own dedicated charger really have no business buying one.
We just sold my wife's Mach E GT (at a big loss) because even though we live in the south, the temps make the car barely useable for her 45 mile (each direction) commute - she would make it home with less than 20% battery remaining after a full charge in the AM. I suspect this has to do a lot with the fact that the Mach E doesn't have a heat pump HVAC.
Anecdotally, at least where I live, I had 2 dealers tell me they didn't even want to give me a number for the Mach-E because they didn't want it on the lot - they are rotting on the lots in the US like all other EV's right now. Even used Telsa's are sitting for months.
Locally, an EV manufacturer (Proterra) went bankrupt and just went through more layoffs. I would be looking over my shoulder if I was working in any EV division right now, it seems everyone is scaling back big time. Meanwhile Toyota with their hybrids are laughing all the way to the bank.
But at least we have the US government spending hundreds of millions on charging stations to prop up this dead horse - reminds me of how they did that 80 years ago for gas stations, too. Oh wait, no they let the free market do that.
The heat pump makes it a lot better. I just went to pick my daughter up from school, 50 minute drive round trip, 35ish km, had to wait for her for 15 minutes, used 12%, around -20c today.
But there are a lot of dealers here that wont touch them either on trade.
oh and I should add, if you dare drive it on teh highway in winter, GFL. lol
Well, one of the huge benefits of this forum is to learn from others experience and knowledge. Gaining insight on a topic from others direct experiences is a great way to "learn" without having to make the same mistakes and enduring the same negative outcomes. Same goes for positive experiences - as those help other make good choices the first time.
Lots of Pro & Con discussion for the 718 EV in this thread, sometimes on EV's in general, yet I look at those as potentially applying to the 718 EV, because, well, its an EV.
Thanks to all for your input, especially those with direct EV experience (Positive & Negative). I know it has enlightened me.
^ lol, first off, i'm a true believer on ev's having some major problems that need to be solved, but that Chicago article is largely horseshiat. I just got through a spat of -38 to -40c weather, with windchill somewhere south of -50c (ya, windchill doesn't affect ambient temps for the basic science people but it does affect how fast a car cools down and retains heat so that matters). Chicago is what, -20c at best? Pff. Those guys are probably morons who left it outside at 10% power and thought they'd warm it up before they drove 20km to charge it. The same morons that drive around on fumes and then run out of gas.
As for our Model 3 in actual cold temps. Its range went into the toilet, maybe 80km usable range max (probably average 450Wh/km, wheras in sept I was averaging 125wh/km), but it actually did great besides that. For more on the power loss, after parking it outside all day at work it took about 15% bat charge to go from -37 to 20c which is crazy, and I would say it lost about 3% from what I remember over that period just sitting (which I've lamented before). I also found out it has quite the limp mode at highway speed at 20% charge. felt like a smart car down on a cylinder. But there has also been no issues charging in close to -40 other than the charge rate is a lot slower on trickle. My wife used the free charging station at her work and it charged at normal pace. I'm amazed it had no quirks for driving it (no funny noises or sounding like its under stress) because a ICE car at cold temps hates life. Telsa design flaws I keep finding from them not knowing how to build cars; the latest is defrost kinda sucks on the side windows, and it's annoying having to select defrost mode every time and how it just blasts max heat as default.
I also noticed one other EV quirk. It puts a lot of power to one wheel and twists the car on ice surfaces. That is an electric motor quirk and they haven't dialed it out with software. You can see this same thing with a electric remote control car like my daughters. Too mcuh power, and it turns slightly every time u start the motion of the car. It's consistently twisting in one direction so it's definitely a EV motor issue. I'm sure it is killing one of my winter tires prematurely from doing that, but we will see by spring time if that is actually the case.
One surprising thing is most of the power loss is not with the climate system. The climate system in -40 actually doesn't use much power to maintain it's temp.
But ya, from an efficiency and dollarwise point of view, a garage is ideal. The warmer it is the more efficient it is. People parking these things on teh street in cold climates without their own dedicated charger really have no business buying one.
Yeah, it really is fake news.
If you actually read articles about what happened in Chicago it was a combination of three things:
1) snow plows piling snow up and blocking several stalls at some locations
2) some chargers had the connectors lying in the snow which froze them up and made them unusable.
3) lack of precondition
We just sold my wife's Mach E GT (at a big loss) because even though we live in the south, the temps make the car barely useable for her 45 mile (each direction) commute - she would make it home with less than 20% battery remaining after a full charge in the AM. I suspect this has to do a lot with the fact that the Mach E doesn't have a heat pump HVAC.
Anecdotally, at least where I live, I had 2 dealers tell me they didn't even want to give me a number for the Mach-E because they didn't want it on the lot - they are rotting on the lots in the US like all other EV's right now. Even used Telsa's are sitting for months.
Locally, an EV manufacturer (Proterra) went bankrupt and just went through more layoffs. I would be looking over my shoulder if I was working in any EV division right now, it seems everyone is scaling back big time. Meanwhile Toyota with their hybrids are laughing all the way to the bank.
But at least we have the US government spending hundreds of millions on charging stations to prop up this dead horse - reminds me of how they did that 80 years ago for gas stations, too. Oh wait, no they let the free market do that.
What did you replace the mach-e with ?
I can't wait to see how the media spins the EV disaster and what they'll do with all of the cars they can't sell. Sure sounds like a lot of batteries that are going to the landfills. Eh, I'm sure they'll ignore it and keep saying EV's will save the planet.
I can't wait to see how the media spins the EV disaster and what they'll do with all of the cars they can't sell. Sure sounds like a lot of batteries that are going to the landfills. Eh, I'm sure they'll ignore it and keep saying EV's will save the planet.
We needed a reliable beater with lots of features that she can put a ton of miles on and still have decent power. We got a Rav4 Prime. Optional plug-in, 42 miles range and then the hybrid system give you 40mpg. Best of both worlds and she's not worried about being stranded. Got it for $6,500 off and it's fully loaded. More features than my 2024 911 with $25k in options... These Prime RAV4's are like hen's teeth, with year-long + waits, we waited 3 weeks, got really lucky.
If you actually read articles about what happened in Chicago it was a combination of three things:
1) snow plows piling snow up and blocking several stalls at some locations I didn't see any of this in several videos, but you may have other sources. Snow plows first responsibility is to clear the roads. Businesses (gas stations, conveniences stores, charging stations, etc.) must clear access for customers.
2) some chargers had the connectors lying in the snow which froze them up and made them unusable. Implausible. I don't see gas pump hoses randomly lying on the ground and I doubt very much that charging station users would carelessly toss the cables on the ground, but you may have other sources.
3) lack of precondition
Odd that you would cite this article as support for EV's. I read the article (all of it), and it is very negative. Not towards the operation of EV's in the cold but a damning of the Norwegian government in its heavy-handed regulations promoting EV's. Through tax incentives of $27,000, toll avoidance, and bus lane access for EV's they achieved their goal of widespread EV adoption but there were unintended consequences. Public transportation development funds dried up, urban areas became congested and traffic increased.
Related from an opinion piece in today's WSJ by "Mr. Buschbacher is a partner at the law firm Boyden Gray PLLC. He served in the Justice
Department’s Environment Division (2020-21). Mr. Conde is counsel at Boyden Gray PLLC."
"When carmakers test gasoline-powered vehicles for compliance with the Transportation Department’s
fuel-efficiency rules, they must use real values measured in a laboratory. By contrast, under an Energy
Department rule, carmakers can arbitrarily multiply the efficiency of electric cars by 6.67. This means
that although a 2022 Tesla Model Y tests at the equivalent of about 65 miles per gallon in a laboratory (roughly the same
as a hybrid), it is counted as having an absurdly high compliance value of 430 mpg. That
number has no basis in reality or law.
For exaggerating electric-car efficiency, the government rewards carmakers with compliance credits
they can trade for cash. Economists estimate these credits could be worth billions: a vast cross-subsidy
invented by bureaucrats and paid for by every person who buys a new gasoline-powered car.
Until recently, this subsidy was a Washington secret. Carmakers and regulators liked it that way.
Regulators could announce what sounded like stringent targets, and carmakers would nod along,
knowing they could comply by making electric cars with arbitrarily boosted compliance values.
Consumers would unknowingly foot the bill.
The secret is out. After environmental groups pointed out the illegality of this charade, the Energy
Department proposed eliminating the 6.67 multiplier for electric cars, recognizing that the number
“lacks legal support” and has “no basis.”
For me, this thread is NOT a fuster cluck. It shows how valuable the 718 is to many folks who don't want the larger 911- and who like the 718 just the way it is.
The fact that the screams and ideas are so loud and have reached "stuck-pig" levels demonstrates the attachment to the 718.
I don't blame Porsche for "trying" EV on the 718 because they sell so few units that EV'ing it is a reasonable business risk that could (I doubt it) pave the way to an EV 911 that is accepted (good luck, 911 guys squeal like stuck pigs over every tweak of the 911).
01-16-2024, 12:11 PM
