When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I owned a Model Y for two years and one thing that did not get old was the power and instant mega torque and rush of effortless power. I agree stop light racing isn't my thing either, but mega torque and seamless silly power is. The electric motor just feels so urgent, quiet, linear and "on" that going from that to ICE opened my eyes to ICE weaknesses. Most ICE cars feel slow now, well normal ones that is, not gt4's gt3's and special ICE cars.
Then, on the other side of the equation, there is no emotion outside of the very relevant benefits of electric power noted above.
There are a few non starters for me with EV's, commercial and heavy duty applications, and sports cars. The former its just not going to happen with towing, 5000lb trucks, landscaping, uhaul trucks, tractor trailers etc. The battery will get crushed until battery technology improves 5 fold. On the latter, sports cars invoke emotion and sound, I predict a hard road ahead for EVs. A smooth, constant, quiet, vanilla surge of power is just dull. Fun in the right application, but dull and lifeless.
What gets old is using the power and torque for a thrill. For all the points you mention.
You've made good points.
A good qualifier that I should include in my comments is that I am comparing EVs to interesting DD vehicles. My DD is a supercharged v8 518hp SUV. Not faster than an EV but fun and that supercharger whine, it's just silly for the size of vehicle. Plus all the utility. Enjoy being able to tow when needed. Will pull a travel trailer this year. F-150 Lightening is not my thing for a DD, and useless most of the time with the bed.
I can see an EV for around town, errand running, perhaps even commute to work if it's a slog in traffic the whole way.
And that's exactly traffic in Los Angeles. I got a Polestar2 for a daily and LOVE it for exactly that purpose. When I used to drive stick everyday, you'd clutch in/out twenty times just getting onto the freeway because of the metered ramp. When I had to commute to Santa Monica, It was anywhere between 75-90 minutes to go 15 miles. Not to mention, I get free charging at work, so I have zero 'fuel' costs. But when I'm driving to actually have fun, give me the ICE with stick.
Reminds me more of a Telsa Roadster style front end and shape. Not seeing more level 3 charging stations near or in track facilities is a deal breaker for me. We love our Taycan 4s for daily use, but 2 - 20min fast sessions at a HPDE and we drained the battery down to around 14%.
My first Tesla Model S was as P85 (#2762 produced - early adopter), replaced with a 100D Model S and then a Model X (big mistake). I've driven other EVs and they all have their benefits, uses, and unique experiences as others have stated.
I also recently purchased a stock 2020, MT 718 Spyder. After upgrading the exhaust (an absolute necessity, IMO), the experience has been transformative. For me, I can't imagine an EV based Cayman will ever convey the same sense of engagement and drive experience as a manual transmission paired with a naturally aspirated engine producing glorious exhaust notes. Will the EV Cayman be quicker? Absolutely. Will Porsche engineer it to handle the extra 1000lbs. Likely so, but there are limits to how much you can engineer around physics. For anything other than straight line acceleration and stopping, that is.
The charge network is king in the EV world. I'm sure a very large majority of DD EVs charge at home. Tesla has the best super charger network on the planet - by a looong shot. With them opening up the network it's great for other EV cars....until the wait times and long lines rival those at CostCo gas stations on the weekend or evenings. The timing of Porche's EV Cayman release will coincide with what I predict will be a truly horrendous experience for anyone needing to use a good super charger during peak times. It's already become very difficult many locations. This may not deter enthusiasts wanting another EV built to Porsche's very high standards (Taycan is fantastic) but the initial offerings will be base Cayman's more suited as DDs than EV canyon runners. If Porsche flips this around and offers the high end "GT/GTS" first then they would surely capture more excitement and press about the drive experience and less complaints about charging a DD.
Target weight 3650 lbs and $15k price increase. Even if electricity is free, most owners will never break even, because very few sports cars are daily drivers. Obviously, it's the end of the manual transmission too. Looks pretty good, and I honestly think looks, 0-60 times, and bhp are the only things that matter to most buyers (oh and cell phone interface...) so it will be interesting to see how they sell. They won't sell one to me, but it will be interesting...
can't wait to listen to that sweet tire and road noise with the top down... mmmm yeah baby
Here’s another interesting take. BMW is evidently trying to develop an EV algorithm that mimics the feel of an ICE engine, because it defines “fun” as being like an ICE engine. Just interesting…obviously this is just BMW’s thoughts…but evidently there is data that some do not find the EV power delivery “fun.”
I think if you're primary interest is smashing most other vehicles from light to light, you will love EV. As you do.
This. Sorry, EV fans aren't going to like to hear this, but "crushing vehicles at stop lights" is for simple minded fools. I grew out of that crap 20 years ago.
Originally Posted by Denny Swift
Told ya!
0-60 times and bragging about bhp is what sells.
This guy that won't shut up about his Tesla is not representative of the sports car market. If I recall correctly, this is the same guy that sold his brilliant vintage NSX for a 981 Cayman S, and then got tired of that and got 4 cylinder 718 that he's now tired of. CLEARLY he doesn't care about any of the tangible characteristics of pure sports cars, because he had arguably one of the very best, and kept trading down until he arrived at what he truly cares about- "crushing vehicles at stop lights".
If that truly is the future of "sports cars" then there are dark times ahead indeed.
This. Sorry, EV fans aren't going to like to hear this, but "crushing vehicles at stop lights" is for simple minded fools. I grew out of that crap 20 years ago.
This guy that won't shut up about his Tesla is not representative of the sports car market. If I recall correctly, this is the same guy that sold his brilliant vintage NSX for a 981 Cayman S, and then got tired of that and got 4 cylinder 718 that he's now tired of. CLEARLY he doesn't care about any of the tangible characteristics of pure sports cars, because he had arguably one of the very best, and kept trading down until he arrived at what he truly cares about- "crushing vehicles at stop lights".
If that truly is the future of "sports cars" then there are dark times ahead indeed.
ok boomer.....lmao
I have several different vehicles currently from a Jeep Rubicon, to 6MT 718, to an M3P ....I like variety and have had several NSX's over the years...should I have just remained close minded stuck to one like you??? I Would probably still have the 981 if it wasnt a PDK....I wanted to get back into a 6MT and the 718 fit the bill, but I dont need to it explain it to you, you CLEARLY have all the answers
Relax grandpa, take a Zoloft and chill.....this is a EV discussion thread, god forbid someone who actaully has a performance EV talk about it on here...no need to be so disrespectful because you don't like EV's
Don't know what has you so upset, but Sound like a Karen
and btw, I love how you still think they are just a one trick pony and only good for straight line speed... try to google some lap times, they are faster around most of the tracks in the US than most modern day Porsches....sorry if that upsets you, but it is reality
Interesting discussion on EV's, yet I hope for Porsche's sake they keep ICE sport cars on the ready given the results of the Taycan.
Sales of the Taycan are down -22.8% in 2022 over 2021 while sales of the 911 were up 1.6% for the same time period. The 911 out sold the Taycan 2 to 1 in the 4th Qtr 2022 (2793 vs 1497), so while the Taycan may represent a great performance vehicle in Acceleration and Handling, not many folks are buying them compared to other ICE models available. Maybe the all electric Macan will do better, yet that vehicle is really not a "Sports Car" is it?... more of a "Sports SUV", for hauling the kids around. Or let's hope the BEV Porsche 718 models coming in 2025 will have relatively better sales than the Taycan..... yet I'm not expecting that will happen.
From my view, the Electric "Sports Car" will not initially be very popular. If it was the Tesla Roadster would not have died so quickly, having only sold about 2400 units across 4 years. "Sports Car" folks want certain attributes in their car, and the BEV platform is missing some of the most desired features of Sound & Feel. Yes, some folks will buy a BEV Sports Car when new models are introduced, yet it will be some time before BEV Sports Cars will be accepted in the market place at a level that is profitable. Especially the Porsche market, as we know any radical change is slow with the Porsche crowd.
Obviously BEV are coming, and the SUV's or Sedan variants will be the first to be embraced. The BEV Sports Car will be the last, if ever truly desired like their ICE forerunners.
Sales of the Taycan are down -22.8% in 2022 over 2021 while sales of the 911 were up 1.6% for the same time period. The 911 out sold the Taycan 2 to 1 in the 4th Qtr 2022 (2793 vs 1497), so while the Taycan may represent a great performance vehicle in Acceleration and Handling, not many folks are buying them compared to other ICE models available.
Wasn’t for lack of interest. PAG reported “The Taycan remains at a high level of orders. In 2022, Porsche delivered 34,801 cars from the model line worldwide (-16 percent). The decline was due to supply chain bottlenecks and limited component availability. Both issues affected the electric sports car in particular.”
Regardless, PAG has a target of 80% revenue from EVs by 2030 so it’s coming.
I have several different vehicles currently from a Jeep Rubicon, to 6MT 718, to an M3P ....I like variety and have had several NSX's over the years...should I have just remained close minded stuck to one like you??? I Would probably still have the 981 if it wasnt a PDK....I wanted to get back into a 6MT and the 718 fit the bill, but I dont need to it explain it to you, you CLEARLY have all the answers
Relax grandpa, take a Zoloft and chill.....this is a EV discussion thread, god forbid someone who actaully has a performance EV talk about it on here...no need to be so disrespectful because you don't like EV's
Don't know what has you so upset, but Sound like a Karen
and btw, I love how you still think tey are just a one trick pony and only good for straight line speed... try to google some lat times, they are faster around most of the tracks in the US than most modern day Porsches....sorry if that upsets you, but it is reality
I originally posted for a response... I regret it now. I don't care about your life at all, or what choices you made to land on your love of Teslas. You're too boring and predictable to troll.
Which speaking of, you're complaining about people who don't like posting about EVs in an EV thread... on a Porsche forum. GTFOH.
Last edited by manifold danger; 05-03-2023 at 06:11 PM.
I originally posted for a response... I regret it now. I don't care about your life at all, or what choices you made to land on your love of Teslas. You're too boring and predictable to troll.
Which speaking of, you're complaining about people who don't like posting about EVs in an EV thread... on a Porsche forum. GTFOH.
You admit you’re a troll, you’re an idiot… figures that would be your response
you do realize I didn’t start this thread and that Porsche actually makes EV’s right?
Wasn’t for lack of interest. PAG reported “The Taycan remains at a high level of orders. In 2022, Porsche delivered 34,801 cars from the model line worldwide (-16 percent). The decline was due to supply chain bottlenecks and limited component availability. Both issues affected the electric sports car in particular.”
Regardless, PAG has a target of 80% revenue from EVs by 2030 so it’s coming.
I'm not in agreement with it "Wasn’t for lack of interest."...... or that "The decline was due to supply chain bottlenecks and limited component availability. Both issues affected the electric sports car in particular"..... I think you need to pay a little more attention to the Porsche Sales Market place, and what Porsche owners are buying.
A quick look at what NEW Porsches are available with-in 500 miles of my zip code tells the story. Only 3 - Boxster/Caymans, 12 - 911s (many of which are not yet available), and over 247 Taycans ( Add up all the different colors to get the total).....
So its pretty clear that there is a lack of interest, as the Taycan is not selling like the 911, or 718 platforms. Anyone in the Porsche market knows that getting a 911 or 718 allocation is very difficult, yet a Taycan allocation is no problem. Porsche is making the Taycan just fine, yet the data clearly says they are not selling.
I'm not in agreement with it "Wasn’t for lack of interest."...... or that "The decline was due to supply chain bottlenecks and limited component availability. Both issues affected the electric sports car in particular"..... I think you need to pay a little more attention to the Porsche Sales Market place, and what Porsche owners are buying.
A quick look at what NEW Porsches are available with-in 500 miles of my zip code tells the story. Only 3 - Boxster/Caymans, 12 - 911s (many of which are not yet available), and over 247 Taycans ( Add up all the different colors to get the total).....
So its pretty clear that there is a lack of interest, as the Taycan is not selling like the 911, or 718 platforms. Anyone in the Porsche market knows that getting a 911 or 718 allocation is very difficult, yet a Taycan allocation is no problem. Porsche is making the Taycan just fine, yet the data clearly says they are not selling.
I don't know what your point is there, look at the same numbers for the Porsche SUVs. Last year they delivered ~309,000 vehicles -- of which ~18,000 were 718s.
If they built 100,000 718s annually it would seem allocations wouldn't be a problem either.
Porsche non-sports cars are cash cows and selling like hot cakes -- this is the future. PAG, a publicly traded company, even says this is the financial future.
"What Porsche owners are buying"? That's easy, everything PAG produces
04-26-2023, 06:01 PM
