OFFICIAL Cayenne Hybrid Delay Thread
07-08-2019, 04:09 PM
#106
You wrote:
If I misinterpreted the above then I apologize. But I nonetheless stand behind the points I made.
My point was just that this is typical behavior for PCNA and offered a few reasons as to why. You and I and many others are in the same boat waiting for cars that should be delivered in a reasonable time frame and we are frustrated at the continued uncertainty. We already know the delay is based on certification issues with WLTP and CARB/EPA. IANAL but I assume that adjusting their eMPG statements per the new system will impact their fleet mpg and may result in significant financial ramifications. So there may be some sort of impasse that shouldn't be made public until resolved. PCNA can't predict a specific date of resolution and would have bigger problems if they assumed one and it slipped. So their cheapest and most expedient option is to not communicate outside of a few vapid PR approved statements. If I were advising them, I would recommend the same.
The way I see it, I have a contract with my dealership and Porsche. If I receive my car in October and shortly thereafter the 2020s are released I will be seeking compensation for all my losses including the 1.99% special finance rate I would have received in March had delivery occurred. The rate is now 3.55%. I also want what was offered for delays to the Panamera last year. I wonder now if Porsche or my dealership will ever call until the car is received. I'm not going to call again, I'm over it. Fortunately, I'm an attorney, and while the amount in controversy isn't that much, I think that they need a reminder that without their customers they have nothing and despite their attitude, they are not doing us a favor to let us purchase one.
To be clear, I am not waving around legal threats, that was the other poster Peter's interpretation. The point I was trying to make was that I don't have to consider the legal cost considerations (other than my time) against the potential value of the remedy which is usually a primary consideration for non-lawyers.
If indeed Porsche delayed manufacturing and delivery "to get it right" as you put it that certainly may be a valid consideration but does not excuse the original purpose of this post which was to comment on the extraordinary lack of communication and transparency with their customers (and apparently dealerships) concerning the delay. to state the obvious, normally dealerships, including Porsche, discount their end of year models when new model years are on the horizon. They do this because they know that given the choice, customers will buy the new model year over the prior year if pricing is comparable. Depreciation is also a big factor. I don't have the attitude, I get what I get. If the 2020s are to be released this Fall in Europe or even the end of the year, I can't imagine the 2020 e hybrid Cayennes to the USA will be far behind.
Porsche should do the right thing here and make amends. That's my 2 cents worth and I really have nothing else to say concerning this topic.
If indeed Porsche delayed manufacturing and delivery "to get it right" as you put it that certainly may be a valid consideration but does not excuse the original purpose of this post which was to comment on the extraordinary lack of communication and transparency with their customers (and apparently dealerships) concerning the delay. to state the obvious, normally dealerships, including Porsche, discount their end of year models when new model years are on the horizon. They do this because they know that given the choice, customers will buy the new model year over the prior year if pricing is comparable. Depreciation is also a big factor. I don't have the attitude, I get what I get. If the 2020s are to be released this Fall in Europe or even the end of the year, I can't imagine the 2020 e hybrid Cayennes to the USA will be far behind.
Porsche should do the right thing here and make amends. That's my 2 cents worth and I really have nothing else to say concerning this topic.
07-16-2019, 11:08 PM
#107
Seems like here in Canada dealers have started showing 2019 E-Hybrids in their inventories for sale. Are we getting closer to certification, or are they jumping the gun? I'm not getting my hopes up given the info from this thread, but it seems pretty odd to add cars to inventory for sale in July , but not be able to sell them till October.
07-18-2019, 05:30 PM
#109
I tend to side with PeterS on this whole deal -- he makes some excellent points.
In your case, Papa1954, agreeing to any nonrefundable deposit immediately grants your dealer the upper hand. Were this a requirement when we got in line for our Turbo nearly 18 months ago, we would have walked. No company is going to permanently lock away one penny of my hard-earned money just so I can enjoy the privilege of being allowed the opportunity to give them more later on, should they decide I am worthy of buying one of their widgets when and if they decide to produce one. As I said earlier, we offered our dealer a refundable $1K deposit to grab the second Turbo order slot. They rather happily accepted.
In your case, Papa1954, agreeing to any nonrefundable deposit immediately grants your dealer the upper hand. Were this a requirement when we got in line for our Turbo nearly 18 months ago, we would have walked. No company is going to permanently lock away one penny of my hard-earned money just so I can enjoy the privilege of being allowed the opportunity to give them more later on, should they decide I am worthy of buying one of their widgets when and if they decide to produce one. As I said earlier, we offered our dealer a refundable $1K deposit to grab the second Turbo order slot. They rather happily accepted.
Secondly, we have learned through our own frustrations that Porsche is not Audi. Nor is it VW, Mercedes-Benz, Lexus, or Hyundai for that matter (obviously). They are a low-volume, premium brand who has slowly built a reputation that creates demand on its own, irrelevant of the service its dealers or the company itself provides. If you want a Porsche that's not on the lot, you will buy it under Porsche's terms. Period. They know demand far outstrips supply as a general rule. That means also, as a general rule, they don't give a crap about you or the pre-order deal you worked out with your dealer. If they decide to give you a car, they'll give you one -- when and how being on their terms entirely. You don't like it? There's the door. Don't let it hit you on the way out.
I am not a lawyer, but have been to law school. I know my way around civil law. Good luck getting a single nickel for your troubles if you start waving around legal threats. The new e-Hybrid is a vehicle full of advanced, cutting-edge tech that Porsche is clearly having a hard time assembling, testing and certifying. They know it's in their long-term interest to get it right -- which means, unfortunately for you, it's gonna be late. Maybe really late. Why is anybody's guess. But the company clearly has no interest in sharing why. Porsche seems to paraphrase my late mother: "You get what you get, and you don't throw a fit."
At some point, the E-hybrids that have been ordered and shipped will show up at the dealers. Hopefully, it will be worth the wait.
07-19-2019, 10:24 AM
#110
Imo, it’s no longer worth the wait for those who ordered a 2019 hybrid. It seems now that everyone could’ve waited until July, ordered a 2020 with a few more options, a few less recalls & saved $ on depreciation. Some of us may literally take delivery of a new 2019 Cayenne on the exact same day that someone else picks up their new 2020.
07-19-2019, 11:46 AM
#111
I wonder though if you decide to lease - as I nearly have, if the model year is irrelevant (assuming no significant technical changes)
If I was buying/financing I would be livid and back out of the deal I guess
If I was buying/financing I would be livid and back out of the deal I guess
07-20-2019, 02:07 AM
#112
Imo, it’s no longer worth the wait for those who ordered a 2019 hybrid. It seems now that everyone could’ve waited until July, ordered a 2020 with a few more options, a few less recalls & saved $ on depreciation. Some of us may literally take delivery of a new 2019 Cayenne on the exact same day that someone else picks up their new 2020.
If you're in a CARB state or any state that suffers from certification delays, it is practically impossible for the MY2020 to be released for sale just after the MY2019s are cleared.
Take a look at the Panamera Hybrid Delay thread. Last year, I ordered a 2018 Panamera Hybrid in May 2018. The 2018s were cleared by CARB already, so I didn't suffer delays, but at first I pushed for a 2019 (save on depreciation). My car was ready for delivery in October 2018. I was told in July/August 2018 that I could have a 2019, but it would be here in April--another 6 months added to the October 2018 eta.
I said no (understandably), but tracked the progress of the 2019s. They were literally just released a few weeks ago (late June/early July). And nothing has really changed mechanically for 2019. So if I had chosen the 2019 build, I would have waited another 8 months.
This is why when people ask about ordering a 2020 Cayenne, I'd say just add 2-3 months on top of your release date for a safer eta (if the car has yet to be certified). If that date is too late for you, look into ordering a MY19 (which will most likely be pushed out sooner since we're late in the cycle) or something off the lot. PCNA pushes certification on the more popular trims first (base, S), then comes around for the Turbos, hybrids, etc (might be different for the coupes). That said, if you're looking to order a 2019/2020 Cayenne (especially the Base and S), my SA in LA can give good discounts (7.5-8% on the base depending on the spec). The ETAs for the more mainstream models will most likely be more accurate. I don't consider the hybrid or Turbo mainstream.
Bottom Line:
The 2020 Cayenne E-Hybrid will have to be re-certified, even though it remains unchanged. This will take months, not weeks. PCNA is still scrambling to get 992 certification done.
Factoring in the price increase of about $1-2k for MY2020, it may just be the better choice to the get the 2019 now, whether it be a custom build or off-the-lot.
*MY=model year
07-21-2019, 01:39 AM
#113
The capital cost is a function of the 'sell' price less the depreciated value at end of the lease, so yes, depreciation does factor into the overall cost of the lease.
07-21-2019, 05:47 PM
#115
My SA emailed on Thursday and said September 6th still, but maybe Porsche haven't updated the status in Canada yet. Unless the paths diverge, I'm thinking I'm going to receive an email soon saying October...
07-22-2019, 03:17 PM
#116
Rennlist Member
My SA originally told me October 4 then said it was back to the early September date but then called the next day saying he heard that it could be significantly sooner than that.
07-22-2019, 11:50 PM
#117
Instructor
So my eagerly anticipated e-hybrid is aboard the GRAND DUKE, steaming off the coast of Costa Rica and is scheduled to dock in San Diego on Friday. Does anyone know what's likely to happen to my Cayenne from 7/26 - 10/3 (or whatever the certification date is)? Do they park them near the Port? Transfer them to the dealer? I hate to think of her outside in the hot California sun for two months!
07-23-2019, 12:47 AM
#118
So my eagerly anticipated e-hybrid is aboard the GRAND DUKE, steaming off the coast of Costa Rica and is scheduled to dock in San Diego on Friday. Does anyone know what's likely to happen to my Cayenne from 7/26 - 10/3 (or whatever the certification date is)? Do they park them near the Port? Transfer them to the dealer? I hate to think of her outside in the hot California sun for two months!
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jsclarke (07-23-2019)
07-23-2019, 01:45 AM
#119
This is an aerial photo of the San Diego area that receives Porsches. You can zoom in or out and make your own conclusions: https://www.google.com/maps/place/13...4d-117.1162262
salt air and sitting around doing nothing by the sea on the other hand,,,,
07-23-2019, 12:56 PM
#120
Rennlist Member
So my eagerly anticipated e-hybrid is aboard the GRAND DUKE, steaming off the coast of Costa Rica and is scheduled to dock in San Diego on Friday. Does anyone know what's likely to happen to my Cayenne from 7/26 - 10/3 (or whatever the certification date is)? Do they park them near the Port? Transfer them to the dealer? I hate to think of her outside in the hot California sun for two months!
