Diesel Cayenne and VW emission issue
08-21-2018, 08:47 AM
#5776
I just used my phone's stopwatch and lap feature to capture the two points. I guess I could use my ODBII connector with some software running to log the 0-60, it won't capture the lag, but... I could run a screen video of the RPM increase to show what's occurring. If anyone else wants to do it, here is my method:
-Brake and REV to 1000 rpm
-Drop brake, floor the gas and hit start
-Hit lap once the boost kicks in
-Hit stop once the car hits 60, and try to anticipate it rather than just waiting for it to hit and then pressing, try to time the press with 60.
By the way, when I say lag, I get some minor response but it's like I'm pressing the pedel 5% down rather than 100% you're actually doing and only getting a 5% response the first 1.7 seconds.
-Brake and REV to 1000 rpm
-Drop brake, floor the gas and hit start
-Hit lap once the boost kicks in
-Hit stop once the car hits 60, and try to anticipate it rather than just waiting for it to hit and then pressing, try to time the press with 60.
By the way, when I say lag, I get some minor response but it's like I'm pressing the pedel 5% down rather than 100% you're actually doing and only getting a 5% response the first 1.7 seconds.
I think its likely a safety thing where the computer gets confused. In a DBW car like ours the computer 100% has protections in it to ignore throttle if it sees both throttle and brake pressed at the same time. Think “Toyota runaway” prevention.
Redo your tests but skip the “bring it to 1000 against the brake” part. Just release brake and nail throttle. It won’t do what you describe with the 5% thing.
08-21-2018, 09:36 AM
#5777
Instructor
Docwyte, the way I look at it, the attorney’s reason for being is to represent his client’s interests. In our case, we are (at least I am) interested in maintaining the performance attributes and value of a vehicle that I quite enjoy driving while being bribed to have it altered. The attorney might be able to look up the value, but the only way he will understand the performance is to drive it. We paid a lot of money to buy a vehicle that performs a certain way so an attorney truly vested in our interests would have driven a CD. It’s the same reason a CPA performing an audit of a company will tour the plant or facilities so when he looks at the books he understands what is represented therein.
There’s a story about when Ross Perot joined the board of General Motors after they bought EDS from him. GM sent a driver in a Caddy to pick him up at the airport. Perot told the driver to scoot over to the passenger seat because he was driving. Perot figured that if he was going to be on the board he better have a first-hand understanding of how GM’s cars drove. Smart guy.
There’s a story about when Ross Perot joined the board of General Motors after they bought EDS from him. GM sent a driver in a Caddy to pick him up at the airport. Perot told the driver to scoot over to the passenger seat because he was driving. Perot figured that if he was going to be on the board he better have a first-hand understanding of how GM’s cars drove. Smart guy.
08-21-2018, 10:18 AM
#5778
Rennlist Member
Yeah, well class action attorneys, for the most part, aren't going to do that. They don't need to drive or use the products they're representing, they just have to win.
08-21-2018, 10:26 AM
#5779
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Christobol
By the way, when I say lag, I get some minor response but it's like I'm pressing the pedel 5% down rather than 100% you're actually doing and only getting a 5% response the first 1.7 seconds.
08-21-2018, 12:56 PM
#5780
Burning Brakes
Just like Alonzo in Training Day "It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
We'd need the attorneys to prove that the performance has changed. It is why someone has asked the question "Has anyone contacted the attorneys?"
Coming on here and complaining is nice/cathartic and all, but when it comes down to it, it is not doing anything to fix the truck(s).
Guys are coming on trying to sell their flash tunes, guys are looking for handheld tuners, multiple trips to dealers because of lag, safety concerns . . .
Until any owners, who might care enough about the degradation of performance goes to class counsel, and informs them of the issues, we can keep on coming on here, reading each others posts, completing polls, reading the updated poll results compiled by Mtea, and that is about it. The circulation of the hot air, in print, on the World Wide Web, will just continue.
Of course, it could very well be that the degradation of performance was paid for by the compensation and all one has left is this thread here on Rennlist.
We'd need the attorneys to prove that the performance has changed. It is why someone has asked the question "Has anyone contacted the attorneys?"
Coming on here and complaining is nice/cathartic and all, but when it comes down to it, it is not doing anything to fix the truck(s).
Guys are coming on trying to sell their flash tunes, guys are looking for handheld tuners, multiple trips to dealers because of lag, safety concerns . . .
Until any owners, who might care enough about the degradation of performance goes to class counsel, and informs them of the issues, we can keep on coming on here, reading each others posts, completing polls, reading the updated poll results compiled by Mtea, and that is about it. The circulation of the hot air, in print, on the World Wide Web, will just continue.
Of course, it could very well be that the degradation of performance was paid for by the compensation and all one has left is this thread here on Rennlist.
Last edited by BenCD; 08-21-2018 at 02:14 PM.
08-21-2018, 02:53 PM
#5781
Intermediate
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 35
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Even pre-fix I noticed very peculiar behavior when attempting to stall up the motor against the converter to build boost before leaving a light.
I think its likely a safety thing where the computer gets confused. In a DBW car like ours the computer 100% has protections in it to ignore throttle if it sees both throttle and brake pressed at the same time. Think “Toyota runaway” prevention.
Redo your tests but skip the “bring it to 1000 against the brake” part. Just release brake and nail throttle. It won’t do what you describe with the 5% thing.
I'm not sure what I'll get from my bluetooth ODBII connector, in my 996 and my Lexus I get a ton of information, so I imagine I'll get the same with the Cayenne. I just need to remember to get it out of the 996.
08-21-2018, 03:07 PM
#5782
Intermediate
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 35
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Just like Alonzo in Training Day "It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
We'd need the attorneys to prove that the performance has changed. It is why someone has asked the question "Has anyone contacted the attorneys?"
Coming on here and complaining is nice/cathartic and all, but when it comes down to it, it is not doing anything to fix the truck(s).
Guys are coming on trying to sell their flash tunes, guys are looking for handheld tuners, multiple trips to dealers because of lag, safety concerns . . .
Until any owners, who might care enough about the degradation of performance goes to class counsel, and informs them of the issues, we can keep on coming on here, reading each others posts, completing polls, reading the updated poll results compiled by Mtea, and that is about it. The circulation of the hot air, in print, on the World Wide Web, will just continue.
Of course, it could very well be that the degradation of performance was paid for by the compensation and all one has left is this thread here on Rennlist.
We'd need the attorneys to prove that the performance has changed. It is why someone has asked the question "Has anyone contacted the attorneys?"
Coming on here and complaining is nice/cathartic and all, but when it comes down to it, it is not doing anything to fix the truck(s).
Guys are coming on trying to sell their flash tunes, guys are looking for handheld tuners, multiple trips to dealers because of lag, safety concerns . . .
Until any owners, who might care enough about the degradation of performance goes to class counsel, and informs them of the issues, we can keep on coming on here, reading each others posts, completing polls, reading the updated poll results compiled by Mtea, and that is about it. The circulation of the hot air, in print, on the World Wide Web, will just continue.
Of course, it could very well be that the degradation of performance was paid for by the compensation and all one has left is this thread here on Rennlist.
BTW, the reported 0-60 times are 6.7, 6.8, 6.9 and 7.2 between Porsche, Zeroto60times.com, Motortrend, Car and Driver respectively.
Once we have enough information, this can be used to address Porsche about it being a systemic problem with the fix with verifiable proof of the changes.
08-21-2018, 03:29 PM
#5783
Burning Brakes
Very true. I wanted to compile actual evidence of the slow 0-60 and the 1.7 lag that can be used in court rather than "uh there is lag, you know like 2-3, sometimes 5 seconds". That won't fly when trying to prove a point, it needs to be measurable and ideally consistent. So if other people can provide the same information we can build a case.
BTW, the reported 0-60 times are 6.7, 6.8, 6.9 and 7.2 between Porsche, Zeroto60times.com, Motortrend, Car and Driver respectively.
Once we have enough information, this can be used to address Porsche about it being a systemic problem with the fix with verifiable proof of the changes.
BTW, the reported 0-60 times are 6.7, 6.8, 6.9 and 7.2 between Porsche, Zeroto60times.com, Motortrend, Car and Driver respectively.
Once we have enough information, this can be used to address Porsche about it being a systemic problem with the fix with verifiable proof of the changes.
08-21-2018, 05:42 PM
#5784
Rennlist Member
Just like Alonzo in Training Day "It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
We'd need the attorneys to prove that the performance has changed. It is why someone has asked the question "Has anyone contacted the attorneys?"
Coming on here and complaining is nice/cathartic and all, but when it comes down to it, it is not doing anything to fix the truck(s).
Guys are coming on trying to sell their flash tunes, guys are looking for handheld tuners, multiple trips to dealers because of lag, safety concerns . . .
Until any owners, who might care enough about the degradation of performance goes to class counsel, and informs them of the issues, we can keep on coming on here, reading each others posts, completing polls, reading the updated poll results compiled by Mtea, and that is about it. The circulation of the hot air, in print, on the World Wide Web, will just continue.
Of course, it could very well be that the degradation of performance was paid for by the compensation and all one has left is this thread here on Rennlist.
We'd need the attorneys to prove that the performance has changed. It is why someone has asked the question "Has anyone contacted the attorneys?"
Coming on here and complaining is nice/cathartic and all, but when it comes down to it, it is not doing anything to fix the truck(s).
Guys are coming on trying to sell their flash tunes, guys are looking for handheld tuners, multiple trips to dealers because of lag, safety concerns . . .
Until any owners, who might care enough about the degradation of performance goes to class counsel, and informs them of the issues, we can keep on coming on here, reading each others posts, completing polls, reading the updated poll results compiled by Mtea, and that is about it. The circulation of the hot air, in print, on the World Wide Web, will just continue.
Of course, it could very well be that the degradation of performance was paid for by the compensation and all one has left is this thread here on Rennlist.
So, once they give it their best shots... or declare, that's the way it is now, I'm OK with using the process as built into the system. It's frustrating, but patience usually pays off (in either a solid fix or other suitable solution).
08-21-2018, 05:47 PM
#5785
Burning Brakes
I think it also is important to go through the process before contacting a lawyer. The settlement gives them 4 changes to fix "driveability" issues, so that's why the repeated trips to my dealer, who have been very responsive. Until you give PCNA adequate chances to fix the problem, there isn't really any place for class counsel to weigh in, I don't think.
So, once they give it their best shots... or declare, that's the way it is now, I'm OK with using the process as built into the system. It's frustrating, but patience usually pays off (in either a solid fix or other suitable solution).
So, once they give it their best shots... or declare, that's the way it is now, I'm OK with using the process as built into the system. It's frustrating, but patience usually pays off (in either a solid fix or other suitable solution).
We don't need to break out the torches, pitchforks and shovels just yet.
08-23-2018, 09:00 AM
#5786
Three Wheelin'
My dealer is 150 miles away. I like Gossett very much. No way I am driving back and forth to the dealership as much as you suggest. It is a day long round trip every time. When they get the fix well and truly fixed, then I will start the process.
08-24-2018, 07:34 PM
#5787
2013 CD bought new - thought the vehicle warranty was extended to six years and 100,000 miles ???
Does anyone have the document or a link to it that extended our new car warranty? Need this to show Porsche.
Not talking about the emissions warranty - just the rest of the vehicle.
Was looking for the letter Porsche sent indicating that our new vehicle warranty would double in miles and time to six years and 100,000 miles.
We thought our 2013 CD warranty would expire on 28 August - being told by dealer that it was only extended by 2 years and 100k
Found this link for 2.1 diesels I had forgotten about in the process that Porsche sent out. This mainly speaks to the emissions system..
_______________________________________
https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-...meet-otis.html
Does anyone have the document or a link to it that extended our new car warranty? Need this to show Porsche.
Not talking about the emissions warranty - just the rest of the vehicle.
Was looking for the letter Porsche sent indicating that our new vehicle warranty would double in miles and time to six years and 100,000 miles.
We thought our 2013 CD warranty would expire on 28 August - being told by dealer that it was only extended by 2 years and 100k
Found this link for 2.1 diesels I had forgotten about in the process that Porsche sent out. This mainly speaks to the emissions system..
_______________________________________
https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-...meet-otis.html
08-24-2018, 07:35 PM
#5788
Rennlist Member
It was extended by 2 years (to 6 total, from in service date) or 100K, whichever happened first.
And it should already be in the computer at your dealer. What are they telling you or trying to claim??
Here is the text of the letter we got (by email, can't recall if it was also hard copied):
As promised in my last letter to you, we remain committed to keeping you updated on the status of the Environmental Protection Agency Notice of Violation we received affecting your Porsche Cayenne Diesel vehicle.
Both we and our engine supplier continue cooperating with all regulatory authorities to identify the changes that will be required in order to re-certify the 3.0-liter V6 diesel engine. Therefore, we would only be speculating if we tried to comment about how any such changes might affect the performance of your Porsche Cayenne Diesel vehicle, if at all. We can only hope you will accept our assurance that, as soon as we know, we will inform you.
As a sign of our respect for you as a Porsche customer, and our appreciation for your patience and loyalty while we clarify the issues and gather all the facts, we hope you will accept a 2-year Porsche Approved Limited Warranty that will extend the warranty coverage for your Cayenne Diesel up to 6 years or 100,000 miles from its original in-service date, whichever occurs first. Your Porsche Cayenne Diesel remains safe and roadworthy, and we hope this longer limited warranty coverage will allow you to continue to drive your Porsche with great confidence. You can find all the details about the Porsche Approved Limited Warranty at http://www.porsche.com/usa/approvedu...ures/warranty/.
This warranty will automatically be added to the records concerning your Porsche Cayenne Diesel vehicle without any further action needed on your part, and is also fully transferable to any future owner of your car. You may be assured that we are offering this without any prejudice to any future rights you may have or may wish to exercise as a result of these unfortunate matters. We mean only to thank you for your loyalty to Porsche and to recognize that these investigations have caused you concern, for which we apologize.
Please allow me to reiterate that we appreciate your business and your loyalty. As this situation unfolds, we hope we may ask you to allow us the necessary time to ensure we make this right for you. We are committed to doing just that.
Very truly yours,
Klaus Zellmer
President and Chief Executive Officer
Porsche Cars North America, Inc.
And it should already be in the computer at your dealer. What are they telling you or trying to claim??
Here is the text of the letter we got (by email, can't recall if it was also hard copied):
As promised in my last letter to you, we remain committed to keeping you updated on the status of the Environmental Protection Agency Notice of Violation we received affecting your Porsche Cayenne Diesel vehicle.
Both we and our engine supplier continue cooperating with all regulatory authorities to identify the changes that will be required in order to re-certify the 3.0-liter V6 diesel engine. Therefore, we would only be speculating if we tried to comment about how any such changes might affect the performance of your Porsche Cayenne Diesel vehicle, if at all. We can only hope you will accept our assurance that, as soon as we know, we will inform you.
As a sign of our respect for you as a Porsche customer, and our appreciation for your patience and loyalty while we clarify the issues and gather all the facts, we hope you will accept a 2-year Porsche Approved Limited Warranty that will extend the warranty coverage for your Cayenne Diesel up to 6 years or 100,000 miles from its original in-service date, whichever occurs first. Your Porsche Cayenne Diesel remains safe and roadworthy, and we hope this longer limited warranty coverage will allow you to continue to drive your Porsche with great confidence. You can find all the details about the Porsche Approved Limited Warranty at http://www.porsche.com/usa/approvedu...ures/warranty/.
This warranty will automatically be added to the records concerning your Porsche Cayenne Diesel vehicle without any further action needed on your part, and is also fully transferable to any future owner of your car. You may be assured that we are offering this without any prejudice to any future rights you may have or may wish to exercise as a result of these unfortunate matters. We mean only to thank you for your loyalty to Porsche and to recognize that these investigations have caused you concern, for which we apologize.
Please allow me to reiterate that we appreciate your business and your loyalty. As this situation unfolds, we hope we may ask you to allow us the necessary time to ensure we make this right for you. We are committed to doing just that.
Very truly yours,
Klaus Zellmer
President and Chief Executive Officer
Porsche Cars North America, Inc.
08-24-2018, 10:31 PM
#5789
It was extended by 2 years (to 6 total, from in service date) or 100K, whichever happened first.
And it should already be in the computer at your dealer. What are they telling you or trying to claim??
Here is the text of the letter we got (by email, can't recall if it was also hard copied):
And it should already be in the computer at your dealer. What are they telling you or trying to claim??
Here is the text of the letter we got (by email, can't recall if it was also hard copied):
I misstated doubled above, Meant to say added 2 years and doubled mileage
"As a sign of our respect for you as a Porsche customer, and our appreciation for your patience and loyalty while we clarify the issues and gather all the facts, we hope you will accept a 2-year Porsche Approved Limited Warranty that will extend the warranty coverage for your Cayenne Diesel up to 6 years or 100,000 miles from its original in-service date, whichever occurs first."
https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-...meet-otis.html
Last edited by RS-America; 08-24-2018 at 10:37 PM. Reason: format & clarified
08-25-2018, 03:03 AM
#5790
Rennlist Member
Perhaps they meant the new vehicle warranty is expired and this warranty coverage - which most agree is the same as CPO - is now in effect. It doesn't cover everything the new vehicle warranty covers, though. On the other hand, based on the language of the email, you could argue that the new vehicle warranty is what was extended and, I'd think, have a pretty strong case if you had to make a claim for something.