Diesel Cayenne and VW emission issue
08-10-2018, 07:35 AM
#5716
Got the truck back, nothing to be done, operating as intended. I guess the occasional 2 second delay in response is a feature now. I do think they reset the adaptation values (assuming Porsche has those) or something because it does seem to drive a bit more like it did right after the fix, it seems more responsive and little quieter than it was when I brought it in. I'm wondering if our substandard diesel doesn't cause the ECU to go into some low cetane map over time.
08-13-2018, 10:42 PM
#5717
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Hi Everyone,
Let me see if I can help out.
The Engine Control Module aka PCM, and the Transmission Control Module aka TCM were both flashed with updated "fixed" software to be able to meet the desired level of whatever...
After changing directions a few times lol, I have developed a transmission tune that will make your Cayenne's feel like their old selves again.
I started with the TDi Touaregs since we have one in the garage.
My username on CT is yrktreg
You can read more about it in this thread here:https://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f...280754-24.html
I am just waiting on a software update to be able to write to the Cayenne TCM's like I have been with the Toaureg's, and Q7's.
Nothing is worse than getting used to a vehicle and then having it behave in an entirely different way IMHO...
Let me see if I can help out.
The Engine Control Module aka PCM, and the Transmission Control Module aka TCM were both flashed with updated "fixed" software to be able to meet the desired level of whatever...
After changing directions a few times lol, I have developed a transmission tune that will make your Cayenne's feel like their old selves again.
I started with the TDi Touaregs since we have one in the garage.
My username on CT is yrktreg
You can read more about it in this thread here:https://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f...280754-24.html
I am just waiting on a software update to be able to write to the Cayenne TCM's like I have been with the Toaureg's, and Q7's.
Nothing is worse than getting used to a vehicle and then having it behave in an entirely different way IMHO...
08-13-2018, 10:47 PM
#5718
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As Skiahh pointed out, there is a correlation of most symptoms due to the transmission software change.
But I firmly believe; it's the ECU update that has more effect on the lost smoothness of operation.
Yes the TCM was modified to fit the tune, but the ECU has had the most effect on how each of our vehicles are and will run in the future.
What I mean by this, depending on each individuals vehicle mileage and how and where they get driven predominantly (City or Highway),
in my case with a 50k mileage (80km) when they fix was done, our '14 CD already had a huge amount of carbon buildup in the induction side.
This was rectified when my Dealer replaced the EGR valve and also cleaned out all the inlet track components including the manifold etc.
That's when I felt she was running the smoothest, but now have the Radiator Fan problem as mentioned in my prior text's.
If you think about it; originally the ECU software is designed for new completely clean engines, beautiful!
But now this fix is being loaded on vehicles with varying mileage's and potentially massive amounts of carbon buildup like my case, l mean I saw this stuff and was shocked at the intensity of each components blockage. This is bad news for any motor.
My vehicles above mileage is mostly highway, hence the 50k mile's (80km), so very little stop go in traffic.
I do feel this was a big factor in the stumbling effect I was feeling and what Skiahh may also be experiencing, at that low speed and then mild acceleration.
There is a silver lining though, on the Touareg TDi forum there is a gentleman by the way of (yrktreg) managing to retune the TCM modules to almost pre fix modes. I and other CD owners have asked if he can do ours as well, his response was positive.
I'd like to mention that all my vehicle woes, have taken place at Sea Level in the South Surrey/White Rock area of BC, adjacent to the Washington State border. My Wife and I have just recently relocated to Kelowna, BC.
Cheers.
But I firmly believe; it's the ECU update that has more effect on the lost smoothness of operation.
Yes the TCM was modified to fit the tune, but the ECU has had the most effect on how each of our vehicles are and will run in the future.
What I mean by this, depending on each individuals vehicle mileage and how and where they get driven predominantly (City or Highway),
in my case with a 50k mileage (80km) when they fix was done, our '14 CD already had a huge amount of carbon buildup in the induction side.
This was rectified when my Dealer replaced the EGR valve and also cleaned out all the inlet track components including the manifold etc.
That's when I felt she was running the smoothest, but now have the Radiator Fan problem as mentioned in my prior text's.
If you think about it; originally the ECU software is designed for new completely clean engines, beautiful!
But now this fix is being loaded on vehicles with varying mileage's and potentially massive amounts of carbon buildup like my case, l mean I saw this stuff and was shocked at the intensity of each components blockage. This is bad news for any motor.
My vehicles above mileage is mostly highway, hence the 50k mile's (80km), so very little stop go in traffic.
I do feel this was a big factor in the stumbling effect I was feeling and what Skiahh may also be experiencing, at that low speed and then mild acceleration.
There is a silver lining though, on the Touareg TDi forum there is a gentleman by the way of (yrktreg) managing to retune the TCM modules to almost pre fix modes. I and other CD owners have asked if he can do ours as well, his response was positive.
I'd like to mention that all my vehicle woes, have taken place at Sea Level in the South Surrey/White Rock area of BC, adjacent to the Washington State border. My Wife and I have just recently relocated to Kelowna, BC.
Cheers.
Just waiting on a software update...
I hope I don't keep getting the typical 2 weeks from them though
08-14-2018, 09:59 AM
#5719
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I get how programming the TCM will stop it's weird behavior of upshifting late and never downshifting to avoid engine braking.
But my biggest issue is rolling into the throttle when the car is still in motion and getting zero response for like 2-3 seconds. I wouldn't imagine that's fixable with the TCM, is it?
But my biggest issue is rolling into the throttle when the car is still in motion and getting zero response for like 2-3 seconds. I wouldn't imagine that's fixable with the TCM, is it?
08-14-2018, 12:01 PM
#5720
I get how programming the TCM will stop it's weird behavior of upshifting late and never downshifting to avoid engine braking.
But my biggest issue is rolling into the throttle when the car is still in motion and getting zero response for like 2-3 seconds. I wouldn't imagine that's fixable with the TCM, is it?
But my biggest issue is rolling into the throttle when the car is still in motion and getting zero response for like 2-3 seconds. I wouldn't imagine that's fixable with the TCM, is it?
Unlock the converter to get some revs (and thus some boost) and it’d probably feel a lot better.
08-14-2018, 12:17 PM
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I get how programming the TCM will stop it's weird behavior of upshifting late and never downshifting to avoid engine braking.
But my biggest issue is rolling into the throttle when the car is still in motion and getting zero response for like 2-3 seconds. I wouldn't imagine that's fixable with the TCM, is it?
But my biggest issue is rolling into the throttle when the car is still in motion and getting zero response for like 2-3 seconds. I wouldn't imagine that's fixable with the TCM, is it?
It this a widespread CD post-fix issue? Or just an isolated incident with 1 or 2 CD's?
And yes I would think that the TCM could be causing this issue as it is trying to now be as eco friendly as possible versus being sporty before.
I will certainly see what I can do to get to the bottom of it all. Worst case scenario we just reprogram the PCM as well as the TCM...
Last edited by yrk928; 08-14-2018 at 12:22 PM. Reason: Edited after drinking my coffee
08-14-2018, 12:34 PM
#5722
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It's good that a software fix is going to be available but I'm not touching either controller until the warranty is expired. I've already had to use it once for this, the dealer recently replaced the EGT sensors and the cats, along with reflashing the ECU. My truck had horrible lag before that, its better now but still not as good as it should be.
08-14-2018, 12:47 PM
#5723
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It's good that a software fix is going to be available but I'm not touching either controller until the warranty is expired. I've already had to use it once for this, the dealer recently replaced the EGT sensors and the cats, along with reflashing the ECU. My truck had horrible lag before that, its better now but still not as good as it should be.
Either one will appear to the dealer as the normal fixed software versions. And due to the magnuson moss warranty act they would really have to prove that either of the tunes caused the issue at hand,
08-14-2018, 01:14 PM
#5724
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No they don't. Any tampering of the tune gives them the right to refuse to fix the vehicle and it would be very difficult for the owner to prove the tune didn't cause the issue. Then it's up to the owner to pursue litigation to get them to fix it. Expensive, lengthy litigation. People love to throw around the magnusson/moss act like it's some sort of hammer, but the reality is the dealer can refuse to do the work and then you're left with a broken car and a potentially large bill to force them to fix it, if you prevail in court.
I once had an Audi dealer refuse to fix a wheel bearing on my car because it had lowering springs on it. This, despite the fact I could've ordered springs that would've lowered the car even more through their parts department. The service managers retort was that those say "Audi" on them. Luckily another Audi dealer recognized that the springs had nothing to do with the wheel bearing going bad and fixed it for me, but a tune? Not so much. On the VW/Audi's they'll tag the car in their computer as having a tune on it, then ALL the dealers know that it has a tune and that the powertrain warranty is void. It wouldn't surprise me if Porsche dealers do the same.
People need to be cognizant that doing a tune basically does void your powertrain warranty...
I once had an Audi dealer refuse to fix a wheel bearing on my car because it had lowering springs on it. This, despite the fact I could've ordered springs that would've lowered the car even more through their parts department. The service managers retort was that those say "Audi" on them. Luckily another Audi dealer recognized that the springs had nothing to do with the wheel bearing going bad and fixed it for me, but a tune? Not so much. On the VW/Audi's they'll tag the car in their computer as having a tune on it, then ALL the dealers know that it has a tune and that the powertrain warranty is void. It wouldn't surprise me if Porsche dealers do the same.
People need to be cognizant that doing a tune basically does void your powertrain warranty...
08-14-2018, 02:52 PM
#5725
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No they don't. Any tampering of the tune gives them the right to refuse to fix the vehicle and it would be very difficult for the owner to prove the tune didn't cause the issue. Then it's up to the owner to pursue litigation to get them to fix it. Expensive, lengthy litigation. People love to throw around the magnusson/moss act like it's some sort of hammer, but the reality is the dealer can refuse to do the work and then you're left with a broken car and a potentially large bill to force them to fix it, if you prevail in court.
I once had an Audi dealer refuse to fix a wheel bearing on my car because it had lowering springs on it. This, despite the fact I could've ordered springs that would've lowered the car even more through their parts department. The service managers retort was that those say "Audi" on them. Luckily another Audi dealer recognized that the springs had nothing to do with the wheel bearing going bad and fixed it for me, but a tune? Not so much. On the VW/Audi's they'll tag the car in their computer as having a tune on it, then ALL the dealers know that it has a tune and that the powertrain warranty is void. It wouldn't surprise me if Porsche dealers do the same.
People need to be cognizant that doing a tune basically does void your powertrain warranty...
I once had an Audi dealer refuse to fix a wheel bearing on my car because it had lowering springs on it. This, despite the fact I could've ordered springs that would've lowered the car even more through their parts department. The service managers retort was that those say "Audi" on them. Luckily another Audi dealer recognized that the springs had nothing to do with the wheel bearing going bad and fixed it for me, but a tune? Not so much. On the VW/Audi's they'll tag the car in their computer as having a tune on it, then ALL the dealers know that it has a tune and that the powertrain warranty is void. It wouldn't surprise me if Porsche dealers do the same.
People need to be cognizant that doing a tune basically does void your powertrain warranty...
And another why dealerships are called stealerships and why non-dealers are so busy.
Kind of like the Chevy dealer that quoted me $2500 to replace 1 broken exhaust manifold stud on my H2. I laughed right in the guys face.
Like anything be cognizant on who you are dealing with. Refusing to replace a wheel bearing because of lower springs is just ignorant.
Not wanting to replace a turbo because of a tuned PCM, yes maybe. It's all relative sir.
Luckily no one is forcing your hand to either fix your CD, or anything after that
08-14-2018, 03:00 PM
#5726
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So if you alter the tune on the engine ECU and the transmission ECU and something happens to either, you're kinda hosed. It'll be very difficult to prove that the altered tune did not cause whatever damage to the engine/transmission. At that point you're totally at the whim of the dealer, if they deny warranty coverage you're facing a difficult and expensive road to try and get coverage.
Everyone has their own willingness to accept risk, at this point, with the truck under warranty, I'm not willing to roll the dice.
Everyone has their own willingness to accept risk, at this point, with the truck under warranty, I'm not willing to roll the dice.
08-14-2018, 03:20 PM
#5727
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So if you alter the tune on the engine ECU and the transmission ECU and something happens to either, you're kinda hosed. It'll be very difficult to prove that the altered tune did not cause whatever damage to the engine/transmission. At that point you're totally at the whim of the dealer, if they deny warranty coverage you're facing a difficult and expensive road to try and get coverage.
Everyone has their own willingness to accept risk, at this point, with the truck under warranty, I'm not willing to roll the dice.
Everyone has their own willingness to accept risk, at this point, with the truck under warranty, I'm not willing to roll the dice.
That is what is so great about this country of ours, to each his own. Everyone can do what they want to do
08-14-2018, 03:30 PM
#5728
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yrk928, I have been following your progress at the CT forum for awhile. It seems that you'll be associated with Malone and in the future we can easily get both a TCM and PCM through Malone. Correct?
As for the discussion about voiding the warranty. Well, it is what it is. For most of us the extended new car warranty ends in 2019 or 2020 at most. We just have to decide wether we want to partake of the fix limited drivetrain warranty until 2023-2025? This is not one of those have your cake and eat it. We took the $10K bribe. So either live with it or do a tune and risk as what docwyte said.
At this point, I am still happy with the fix. But who knows. All those issues that have been posted here may manifest themselves and I'll have to make a decision to (1) do nothing, (2) get the tunes, (3) just sell the CD.
As for the discussion about voiding the warranty. Well, it is what it is. For most of us the extended new car warranty ends in 2019 or 2020 at most. We just have to decide wether we want to partake of the fix limited drivetrain warranty until 2023-2025? This is not one of those have your cake and eat it. We took the $10K bribe. So either live with it or do a tune and risk as what docwyte said.
At this point, I am still happy with the fix. But who knows. All those issues that have been posted here may manifest themselves and I'll have to make a decision to (1) do nothing, (2) get the tunes, (3) just sell the CD.
08-14-2018, 03:35 PM
#5729
Unfortunately this isn't a common issue with the Touareg's or Q7's that I have been working on, so it is the first that I am hearing about it. I posted on the Touareg forum just to make sure that I didn't miss it.
It this a widespread CD post-fix issue? Or just an isolated incident with 1 or 2 CD's?
And yes I would think that the TCM could be causing this issue as it is trying to now be as eco friendly as possible versus being sporty before.
I will certainly see what I can do to get to the bottom of it all. Worst case scenario we just reprogram the PCM as well as the TCM...
It this a widespread CD post-fix issue? Or just an isolated incident with 1 or 2 CD's?
And yes I would think that the TCM could be causing this issue as it is trying to now be as eco friendly as possible versus being sporty before.
I will certainly see what I can do to get to the bottom of it all. Worst case scenario we just reprogram the PCM as well as the TCM...
But slow significantly but don't stop (say from 45, down to ~20-25, such as to roll through a corner) and then attempt to re-accelerate, and there's 1-2s (literally 1-2 *seconds*, you can count it) where you hit the pedal and essentially nothing happens. Keep pushing the pedal down further and further, your butt starts to pucker as you realize "crap I'm not going anywere" and suddenly the thing downshifts to 1st gear and you ROCKET off.
My personal theory based on my own knowledge + some posts here: it's a combo of TCM tune trying to keep the RPMs low, ECM tune (no power until you have boost) plus likely tons of EGR added, which gets clogged and exacerbates the problem.
Sure and it all depends on what you want. I know a lot of people that are taking the money received and ditching all of the problematic things like the DPF/ senors, etc...
That is what is so great about this country of ours, to each his own. Everyone can do what they want to do
That is what is so great about this country of ours, to each his own. Everyone can do what they want to do
It's a significant enough warranty + an expensive enough vehicle, that a voided warranty could be painful.
08-14-2018, 03:43 PM
#5730
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yrk928, I have been following your progress at the CT forum for awhile. It seems that you'll be associated with Malone and in the future we can easily get both a TCM and PCM through Malone. Correct?
As for the discussion about voiding the warranty. Well, it is what it is. For most of us the extended new car warranty ends in 2019 or 2020 at most. We just have to decide wether we want to partake of the fix limited drivetrain warranty until 2023-2025? This is not one of those have your cake and eat it. We took the $10K bribe. So either live with it or do a tune and risk as what docwyte said.
At this point, I am still happy with the fix. But who knows. All those issues that have been posted here may manifest themselves and I'll have to make a decision to (1) do nothing, (2) get the tunes, (3) just sell the CD.
As for the discussion about voiding the warranty. Well, it is what it is. For most of us the extended new car warranty ends in 2019 or 2020 at most. We just have to decide wether we want to partake of the fix limited drivetrain warranty until 2023-2025? This is not one of those have your cake and eat it. We took the $10K bribe. So either live with it or do a tune and risk as what docwyte said.
At this point, I am still happy with the fix. But who knows. All those issues that have been posted here may manifest themselves and I'll have to make a decision to (1) do nothing, (2) get the tunes, (3) just sell the CD.
IMHO the TCM tune give you back most of the old vehicle that you are used to, with the least amount of risk.
Like I said earlier it is almost impossible for a dealer to be able to tell the difference in the TCM. The PCM is a little different however due to them being able to check more things on it.
I am in no way trying to convince anyone to do this, that, or the other thing. I am only here to try and get people the same vehicle back that they purchased before the fix.
This all started with getting the wifes Treg fixed, and then going what just happened...
If you want zero risk, do nothing. If you want the old feel back give the TCM tune a shot. Everyone has been very happy with it to date.
If you give zero f*cks get a bigger turbo, and get a Malone stage 3 tune :P