The 997 GT3/RS Cars For Sale Thread...
08-24-2016, 08:47 AM
#511
Agent Orange
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New clusters need to be programmed by the dealer. Functions like TPMS, radio, navi, sport chroMo, engine mounts, and the correct mileage are all a function of the programming. Once that's done the new cluster will have all the attributes of the old one.
08-24-2016, 10:05 AM
#512
Burning Brakes
yes, I second that: secretcollector is one of the most experienced people here given how many cars he buys and sells. he even spotted that Mecum 997.1 GT3 RS from Michael *** had bolster replaced - nobody else I know spotted that, including me. very impressive to say the least. props where they are due. as for the auction results, here is my simple take: GOOD TIMES ARE OVER BOYS facts are facts and here are they are: - total gross cars this year was $282M vs. $340M last year (huge decline) - 70% of cars sold below estimate vs. 57% last year let's pause here for a second and process this statistics: almost 3/4 of all cars sold this weekend didn't even reach the lowest estimate number compared to about half of cars last year. OK, let's keep going: - only 28(!!!) cars sold above the top estimate compared to 54 cars last year (almost 50% drop from last year) - price decline overall: this year average price of car sold was $941K while last year it was $990K. factor in an annual inflation number and that is a very significant drop YOY but of course various shady brokers, dubious dealers and their proxies will try to pull the wool over your eyes and say that the cars were not good enough or come up with some other excuse... and they will say that the low miles rare cars command same high premium as before and are always in high demand. that is all bullcrap and you should not don't believe that for a moment. here is a perfect case to prove my point: the delivery miles 1994 Flachbau at Gooding which had estimate of $1,400,000 - $1,800,000 barely sold for $1 million dollars. this car is as rare as it gets and as low miles as it gets and it sold for almost 50% off its high estimate. so don't let this "prices are dropping but cond 1 cars are keeping their prices" bullcrap fool any of you. just as the rising tide lifts all boats, hot air escaping from a pricing bubble equally affects all cars (american proverb) 
in short: market is adjusting... it is adjusting fast and not in a small way. the numbers from this last weekend speak for themselves folks.
in short: market is adjusting... it is adjusting fast and not in a small way. the numbers from this last weekend speak for themselves folks.Total gross revenue - what were the top ten high sales last year? Any big cars that might have skewed the numbers and avg sale price? How many cars were sold this year vs last?
Finally, the flachbau. Rare car. But isn't the air cooled scene, notably the turbo air cooled scene the epicenter for all things hot that are cooling off? And you once again compared the sale price to an estimate. Was it not a high price paid in recent history? Not surprising to me in the slightest. Just playing devils advocate here...
08-24-2016, 10:27 AM
#513
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Also, part of the decline in overall sales was due to the fact that RM had a smaller auction (50 fewer cars) due to space constraints.
$941k vs 990k only represents a 5% decline....that's not much even with inflation factored in given that air-cooled Porsches increased in value between 200-400% from 2012-2015.
Looking at the individual sale results gives a much better picture though, as some cars sold for lower than expected and others sold higher. We can't lump the entire market picture into statistics that encompass everything from pre-war historics to modern exotics and everything in between. Each collector niche has its own market trends.
But this thread isn't supposed to be about market discussion, so mods, feel free to delete all this crap!
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08-24-2016, 11:29 AM
#515
Platinum Dealership
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A couple of questions. Aren't "estimates" arbitrary? Set by auction houses? Comparisons vs estimates seems meaningless to me. I looked through some of the catalogues and almost fell off my chair. Total gross revenue - what were the top ten high sales last year? Any big cars that might have skewed the numbers and avg sale price? How many cars were sold this year vs last? Finally, the flachbau. Rare car. But isn't the air cooled scene, notably the turbo air cooled scene the epicenter for all things hot that are cooling off? And you once again compared the sale price to an estimate. Was it not a high price paid in recent history? Not surprising to me in the slightest. Just playing devils advocate here...
Something to consider- yes the estimates are somewhat artificial BUT at the end of the day a lot of them are based on prior action.
I almost bought an F40 with 1490 miles for 1.1M. I just got outbid by a phone guy for 25k at the last min which was probably a proxy bid set pre-auction. The estimate was 1.2-1.4 and I see ferrari f40's listed ALL DAY with more miles for well into that range and know people that have bought 8-10k mile cars for 1.25-1.4. So, despite being a really really nice example of a bonafide super car, people didn't want to lift their hands.
Back on 997 topics-
Mecum DID sell the green 997.1RS for a bunch of cash and it had 15k miles on it or more. I think it went for 285k + buyer fee so that's well into 300k territory.
08-24-2016, 11:51 AM
#516
Rennlist Member
08-24-2016, 08:41 PM
#517
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Spyerx
The prices of the 2 have been equalizing for some time.
Why? Dunno. But the .1 cars are more reliable. Don't have those pesky variocan issues
Why? Dunno. But the .1 cars are more reliable. Don't have those pesky variocan issues
08-25-2016, 05:30 PM
#518
8th Gear
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Hey Racingsilver!
Any particular reason for selling such a gem!? I see you've gotten your 5k miles out of it and have probably enjoyed it immensely. Just wondering if there were any downsides or "annoyances" you've noticed while owning the car that would compel you to sell it?
Thanks!
theOz
Any particular reason for selling such a gem!? I see you've gotten your 5k miles out of it and have probably enjoyed it immensely. Just wondering if there were any downsides or "annoyances" you've noticed while owning the car that would compel you to sell it?
Thanks!
theOz
08-26-2016, 12:24 AM
#519
Burning Brakes
Spoken like a true buyer ... will be interesting to see how some of the rarities in London go ... as different from Monterey should blow away the estimates ... but if not then I guess you are right and it is the end of the world as we know it after all 
08-26-2016, 12:49 AM
#520
Rennlist Member
For what it's worth, Panorama's sales guide said aircooled and GT collectible pcars were off 10% this year. No chicken little but the bubble has retracted a bit.
Last edited by nwGTS; 08-26-2016 at 09:42 AM.
08-26-2016, 03:31 AM
#521
08-26-2016, 11:19 AM
#522
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08-26-2016, 12:16 PM
#524
Burning Brakes
true ... unless you sell you cant lose money ... but buying more for less is in a buyer's interest if the buyer is a long term holder ... to add to your point there are dealers who will get stuck with inventory they will either have to sell at a loss or hold for awhile ... so depreciation swings hit them. brokers don't typically hold inventory by definition so they roll with the price swings.
08-26-2016, 12:21 PM
#525
Rennlist Member
All illiquid asset prices have softened as everyone has been saying is going to happen, I somewhat hope we just take a dive and get over with it - new election cycle may help with it - pull the band aid
Just bought my RS - not going to lose sleep over it and I'm sure neither is Anonymous
These should be a bit cheaper
Just bought my RS - not going to lose sleep over it and I'm sure neither is Anonymous
These should be a bit cheaper