GC996

Skip, it's looking great!

Two questions.

1. You mentioned the UIDS oil capacity was increased by 1 quart. Does that mean that the UIDS is able to run an additional quart of oil above normal "stock" oil capacity?
2. Are you still going to offer an additional extension of 0.6 quarts in addition.

I am certain you will nail all the data when you start track testing. One thing that comes to mind is that with a 2 QT deep sump, we get some cooling advantages with the extra oil for about 20 min or so on the track. Depending on the oil levels we can run with the UIDS, it would be good to know what to expect with the trajectory of the oil heating up versus a 2 Qt sump. In essence, do we exit the track at 20-25 min which is what I have historically done or can we stay on for a full 30 min or even run 2 sessions back to back. In addition, what do the numbers look like if we run 2 radiators vs. 3. Obviously, the addition of an oil cooler solves the extra 2 Qt of oil advantages.

You get the idea. I know it's asking a lot, but I am thinking out loud with you.

Between what LN is actively working on with oil cooling and your cooling ideas, we should be able to not only address cooling issues but solve the oil starvation and pressure issues once and for all.

Nice work guys!

sdematt

I'm running a center rad, and I'd love to see all that data broken down, or recommended, at the very least if possible

theprf

I don't think a 1Q change is going to make any difference. Reference Zbomb's thread, the oil temp changes +/- 20F during a single lap. On my VW which i rather a different car I would see oil temps vary between 250 and 320 and back again on a single lap.

cwheeler

Def makes a difference in warmup time.... but out on track, more fluid to dissipate heat, has to be better. ???♂

Hal

Skip, CONGRATULATIONS on getting this puppy across the line and home. I have learned a lot about these cars over the course of this tread. Great, great info.

My time on the track is over, but if I was to still be going, I would be among the first trying to give you my cash.

Best of luck going forward and I can't wait to see what is next up your sleeve.

Hal

sdematt

My plan isn't even to take it on the track all that often, but I want it more so that if the opportunity arises, I'm not feeling like I can't do it. I want to keep my options open

-Matt

GC996

​​​​​​Prf, appreciate your thoughts. Don't want anyone to misunderstand what I asked Skip. He and George have built a gamechanging solution with the UIDS. Everybody that steps on a track should have one. Depending on the timing of release of the UIDS, it's oil capacity and the timing of the release of the LN Oil cooler and it's location on the car, will determine what, how and when I implement cooling enhancements.

There is no doubt in my mind that the perfect set-up for all of us going forward will be the UIDS, UAOS with drainback, and LN oil cooler.

Kudos to Skip and George!

Add/Edit: As a side note on the oil cooler, the design and resting location of the oil cooler will determine if we will benefit from a 3rd radiator or if we can even use a 3rd radiator depending on the oil cooler location. Too early yet to know. Hence the questions I asked on oil capacity as a short-term cooling solution.

Formerly996fried

I wonder after installing Skip's and George's creation how many other pans, like mine, will become ashtrays to hold the remnants of Cohibas or Padrons.

GC996

It is.

Obviously if you have enhanced water and oil cooling, the extra oil may not be as important. But keep in the back of your mind that the longer you are on the track, and the bigger the track where you are on the gas for longer, the more heat problems you have. Road America creates a lot of heat. It's 4 miles long with a lot of long straights on the gas. A smaller 2 mile long track like our local track Blackhawk is a walk in the park from a heat stand point.

But...

The longer you are on the track, the more the engine heats up and the more your oil temps will rise to the point that they will swamp your water cooling. Extra oil helps to slow the trajectory early on in the session, but works against you late in a 25-30 min session.

What I found with my 996.2 was that if I exited the track after 25 min on a 2 mile long track, I could contain the risk of overheating running a 2Qt deep sump and 2 radiators. At Road America, I was getting very hot at 25 min so one or two laps less would keep temperatures under control.

Don't know how much more time a 3rd radiator would have given me on the track, nor do I know what an oiler cooler will provide, but I am going to find out this year. But at 290 degrees, you can kiss your M96 engine good bye.

Porschetech3

Water cooling and oil cooling are different genres from oil pressure drops, and deserve there own technical thread to spearhead a discussion into the most viable solution. I realize there is some bleed-over of the different physics/components of each, but to spear-head discussions they need to be separated as to not conflate/ confuse the best solutions.

The target for the UIDS is/was to eliminate the oil pressure drops in turns, I think that is the biggest deficiency in the M96 engine and the reason I targeted this particularly. The UIDS does this inthe most efficient.compact, economical, easy to install way.

CG996; your 996.2 oil fill is 8.75 qts. If you run at half gauge as you probably do, that's 8.25qts,add 2qts for deep sump you have been running 10.25qts.of oil. with the UIDS/UAOS W/drain back you can run 11.5 qts of oil which is 1.25 qts more than you have ever ran.( and that's without any extra spacers). You can certainly add longer bolts and extra spacers between UIDS ( and the adaptor tube ) to gain even more oil volume but at a cost of ground clearance). I would recommend NOT doing this as 11.5 qts of oil is plenty and as designed the UIDS will have more ground clearance than a 2 qt deep sump.

I hope everyone isn't confused by all the math, but looking at things from a birds-eye view, most "dry sumps" only use 8 qts of oil. The most common "dry sump" tanks are 3 gal but only filled to 2 gal oil ( 8qts) and use 1 gal for air volume. so the UIDS/UAOS will have much more oil than most common "dry sumps" ...So if "temp" is the next issue to be improved, it needs to be a separate focus.

I'll be glad to add my ideas on much better oil cooling in a separate thread. But may be unnecessary, depending on if LN oil cooler is going to be produced... I have my plate full and don't want to be building another invention at this time , but happy to share my thoughts..

GC996

Thanks Skip. That's plenty of oil. Appreciate the detail.

Porschetech3

Happy to talk about the UIDS...

As a side note :: the fins on the UIDS do add a lot of surface area to help with cooling of the oil, and were added as a side benefit of the UIDS. But I don't want it to take away from the main focus of the UIDS, which is to deliver oil to the oil pump under all driving conditions..Which is the biggest issue the M96 has. The engine will not survive if it doesn't get constant oil supply..

EVOMMM

Skip what kinds of punishment do you think it can handle from street driving debris and potholes

Mike Murphy

It’s pretty tough. I wouldn’t worry. I think someone ran over a curb with this during testing and it held up. It doesn’t appear to hang too low, so I don’t think that’s an issue either.

hatchetf15

cough, cough…Skip?