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Looking at their site it looks like they basically use the EPS IMS bearing. That's what came out of my car when I did the IMS job (I thought it was the stock one in there due to lack of records). The shop I used usually does LN ones but they were impressed with how good it looked after about 50k some miles. Smooth with no play. Here are some photos I snapped:
This, I have over 3k track miles on my Track Performer II. 90 percent of the miles at Brainerd and Road America. Both have long sweepers. I run R7's. Yes the pressure droops, but never goes to 0.
To not drive this thread OT - could you provide input on your oil pressure observations on your built motor in the thread I started on what I see on my stock motor ?
opens up the rod bearings a smig for better oiling. Im sure he has a few other tricks as he has a couple hundred 3.4l rebuilds out and about.
This is where it turns into a juggling act. Opening up the bearings a tiny bit, something like a half-thou or less, promotes greater oil flow which promotes greater bearing cooling. Plain bearings are oil-cooled by the escaping oil flow. Open plain bearings out too much and the hydrodynamic wedge effect is lost. Plain bearings rely on a hydrodynamic wedge effect to support the bearing loads - the oil pressure from the pump doesn't support the bearing loads which run into thousands of PSI. The oil pressure just keeps the flow of oil to the bearings.
Of course if opening up the bearings a touch results in better bearing cooling, the heat must go somewhere and that's into the oil. Also the oil pump must flow more oil because the leakage effect through the bearing has been increased. The need for more flow can cause lower oil pressure which can starve bearings towards the end of the flow circuit.
This is where it turns into a juggling act. Opening up the bearings a tiny bit, something like a half-thou or less, promotes greater oil flow which promotes greater bearing cooling. Plain bearings are oil-cooled by the escaping oil flow. Open plain bearings out too much and the hydrodynamic wedge effect is lost. Plain bearings rely on a hydrodynamic wedge effect to support the bearing loads - the oil pressure from the pump doesn't support the bearing loads which run into thousands of PSI. The oil pressure just keeps the flow of oil to the bearings.
Of course if opening up the bearings a touch results in better bearing cooling, the heat must go somewhere and that's into the oil. Also the oil pump must flow more oil because the leakage effect through the bearing has been increased. The need for more flow can cause lower oil pressure which can starve bearings towards the end of the flow circuit.
I 100% agree and is one of the things i dont want to do the math on. I have a feeling the only way u get it right is through experience.
It's like soup. No one ingredient makes it have the taste you are looking for.
Right oil
Right place
Right time
Right temperature
Right quantity
These are lubrication 101.
You can't just open up a clearance and save the world.. You can't just apply a coating. You can't just put in a bigger oil pump. You can't just use a special oil. You can't just install an oil cooler...
This is all a recipe, and at the end of the day the ONLY way you get it right is by blowing things up one at a time. This is why people don't buy one engine from me, they buy pieces of around 1,000 others, some of which were only assembled to be killed on purpose.
Using different clearances in the same engine with different oils, and temperatures, then tearing it down (if it lives) is a key. Each one of those tests eats a month or so of your life, while you are expending the life, and money that the other go isn't willing to, all to hone the craft. He is busy bolting things together, calling himself an engine builder, and playing the part of a role he won't ever memorize the words to.
I've blown up a lot of stuff.. A lot. I have an (Aircooled) engine on my bench now that failed on my engine dyno when I turned the volume rpm as high as I intended the engine to withstand. I get to do it all over again, but that's what happens when you triple the power of an engine that's over 50 years old, and you push the envelope. I learned something today that I didn't know yesterday, and that's why I'll never be an "Expert".
People think there's one answer to solving problems with these engines. That never has, and never will be the case.
People say this is just like any other engine, and nothing we do is special. Funny thing is, those guys can't seem to make one work themselves, or they don't even have the ***** to try it.
Last edited by Flat6 Innovations; 05-19-2021 at 03:20 PM.
It's like soup. No one ingredient makes it have the taste you are looking for.
Right oil
Right place
Right time
Right temperature
Right quantity
These are lubrication 101.
You can't just open up a clearance and save the world.. You can't just apply a coating. You can't just put in a bigger oil pump. You can't just use a special oil. You can't just install an oil cooler...
This is all a recipe, and at the end of the day the ONLY way you get it right is by blowing things up one at a time. This is why people don't buy one engine from me, they buy pieces of around 1,000 others, some of which were only assembled to be killed on purpose.
Using different clearances in the same engine with different oils, and temperatures, then tearing it down (if it lives) is a key. Each one of those tests eats a month or so of your life, while you are expending the life, and money that the other go isn't willing to, all to hone the craft. He is busy bolting things together, calling himself an engine builder, and playing the part of a role he won't ever memorize the words to.
I've blown up a lot of stuff.. A lot. I have an (Aircooled) engine on my bench now that failed on my engine dyno test. I get to do it all over again, but that's what happens when you triple the power of an engine that's over 50 years old, and you push the envelope. I learned something today that I dirndl;t know yesterday, and that's why I'll never be an "Expert".
People think there's one answer to solving problems with these engines. That never has, and never will be the case.
Jake you are correct most Of the time but regarding oil sometimes you missed the boat. You build the engine you know what your tolerances are so you specify viscosity. Viscosity is a range so pass car 40 w oil can be 13 at 100c, if you use a deo (Diesel engine oil) most formulate around 15, that 2 centistokes difference is huge, number two, due to residence time in the sump, oil pressure, oil flow heat dissipation, you want to have as much oil as possible in the sump without overfill. Anyway if you ever get a chance to get an oil approved by a European oem and see
how they conduct testing you see there is a huge difference in procedure between us and Europe. Anyway a piece of paper
will take anything you can write fit on it, an approval process, license from a oem that is a different proposition and yes that’s not cheap. Ask chevron with their newest delo 400, or shell
with their newest rótela how much
they spent in testing formulating before final end product was put out , I’ll guarantee you over a 1,000,000 dollars. You know engines I know oils. Oh by the way, on one if your videos you said that one of your customers saved oil samples for years, the longest an oil sits the more it will degrade and it will not show the condition of the mechanical equipment at the time. Also another insight, most companies oil companies buy an additive package that is compatible with a particular base oil (lubrizol, ethyl, paramins, etc), the best formula is put together component by component, that cost an arm and a leg.
I sure am glad that we have an oil expert here. Maybe people can ask you all the questions that I refuse to answer.
I'm out of here before the OP gets his topic diverted to another planet.
See y'all.
Last edited by Flat6 Innovations; 05-19-2021 at 03:32 PM.
I sure am glad that we have an oil expert here. Maybe people can ask you all the questions that I refuse to answer.
I'm out of here before the OP gets his topic diverted to another planet.
See y'all.
If you do try dealing with the French. History lesson, you know why the French invented some of the best fragrances, colognes?? Sometimes no showers in a week, perfectly normal for French females to have more arm pit hair than us guys and that was sexy for them. Finally when Napoleon was out there with his short stature trying to conquer the world he would send a messager to Marie Antonieta not to take a shower in a few days because he was coming home, laugh 😹 people laugh 😂. I’m not making this crap up Is real. Back to the thread.
Thx guys. I remember that thread. Good info in there.
After talking to a second engine builder they think that upgrading the rods may be overkill for our hp level and its really the bolts that have the issue. Its hard to figure out what ia really needed.
It’s not hard to figure out if you just follow JR’s advice and trust/know you’ll get good info. Too many positive reviews and examples of happy customers is a good benchmark.
Last edited by Mike Murphy; 05-19-2021 at 05:34 PM.
Jake you are correct most Of the time but regarding oil sometimes you missed the boat. You build the engine you know what your tolerances are so you specify viscosity. Viscosity is a range so pass car 40 w oil can be 13 at 100c, if you use a deo (Diesel engine oil) most formulate around 15, that 2 centistokes difference is huge, number two, due to residence time in the sump, oil pressure, oil flow heat dissipation, you want to have as much oil as possible in the sump without overfill. Anyway if you ever get a chance to get an oil approved by a European oem and see
how they conduct testing you see there is a huge difference in procedure between us and Europe. Anyway a piece of paper will take anything you can write fit on it, an approval process, license from a oem that is a different proposition and yes that’s not cheap. Ask chevron with their newest delo 400, or shell with their newest rótela how much they spent in testing formulating before final end product was put out , I’ll guarantee you over a 1,000,000 dollars. You know engines I know oils. Oh by the way, on one if your videos you said that one of your customers saved oil samples for years, the longest an oil sits the more it will degrade and it will not show the condition of the mechanical equipment at the time. Also another insight, most companies oil companies buy an additive package that is compatible with a particular base oil (lubrizol, ethyl, paramins, etc), the best formula is put together component by component, that cost an arm and a leg.
Are you trying to get the teacher sticker? Maybe the smiley face on your paper? Have you tried putting an apple on their desks? That used to work.
How many Porsche engines have you personally built?
Hiding. Every time I show up here there is some kind of fight going on. If it's not an IMS debate or how to make the M96 accept a dry sump oil system, there is someone attacking the very few knowledgeable contributors to this forum.
I still read a lot of information on Rennlist including the progress on your AOS invention. Congratulations.
Can I now see images of all your certificates, degrees, etc.? I see that's the new Rennlist standard?
05-19-2021, 11:04 AM
