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Just think Jack... When we are both at a day and we combine the canopies... gonna be like a damn estate of shade.
Thanks for watching the videos man !
Well at least you won’t be bumping your head on the canopy like Brad did on mine. Enjoyed your latest video great job and Have a good day tomorrow. I expect to see some fast lap times. Be safe.
What a fun day today - a fun HOT day. I am gassed.
The good - Car worked great in some pretty demanding conditions, 6 sessions, 2 hours of on track time. I have not looked at much data but did pull some at lunch and saw oil temps were touching 260 F.
I gave rides to Aaron @theprf and a couple other buddies and that was fun - I hope the guys enjoyed them, it was certainly nice of them to come out despite the temps, being at the track with friends is really, really awesome. Shook the bugs out in my new luxurious canopy / cooler / grill setup but for a first time out, it worked pretty good. And, my boy came and stuck it out for half the day, love having him at the track, my number 1 fan.
The not bad - No PB today, I've got more work to do on the suspension / tire pressure / aero stuff than I thought and although the car really seems to shine in some places in excess of where it did previously, in others, it is far more difficult to drive and requires spending more time at the limit of grip, to not go faster. I would not say I am discouraged, I would say it is time to start taking setup far more seriously - I have a lot to learn and I can't hope it just clicks. I drove pretty hard today, I could not get much more out of it than I did.
The bad - The damn drivers side mini muffler and dump pipe fell off sometime in the last session, no idea... i liked those parts despite their ugliness. RIP mini muffler and dump pipe.
All in all, I love this car, the fact I have to work for it doesn't bother me, the reality is with the old setup, it was easy to drive and not easy to mess up. This one is different and there is a lot there, I need to work to get it.
What a fun day today - a fun HOT day. I am gassed.
The good - Car worked great in some pretty demanding conditions, 6 sessions, 2 hours of on track time. I have not looked at much data but did pull some at lunch and saw oil temps were touching 260 F.
I gave rides to Aaron @theprf and a couple other buddies and that was fun - I hope the guys enjoyed them, it was certainly nice of them to come out despite the temps, being at the track with friends is really, really awesome. Shook the bugs out in my new luxurious canopy / cooler / grill setup but for a first time out, it worked pretty good. And, my boy came and stuck it out for half the day, love having him at the track, my number 1 fan.
The not bad - No PB today, I've got more work to do on the suspension / tire pressure / aero stuff than I thought and although the car really seems to shine in some places in excess of where it did previously, in others, it is far more difficult to drive and requires spending more time at the limit of grip, to not go faster. I would not day I am discouraged, I would say it is time to start taking setup far more seriously - I have a lot to learn and I can't hope it just clicks. I drove pretty hard today, I could not get much more out of it than I did.
The bad - The damn drivers side mini muffler and dump pipe fell off sometime in the last session, no idea... i liked those parts despite their ugliness. RIP mini muffler and dump pipe.
All in all, I love this car, the fact I have to work for it doesn't bother me, the reality is with the old setup, it was easy to drive and not easy to mess up. This one is different and there is a lot there, I need to work to get it.
Jason, glad it was a good day. I propose that we get another go-fund-me account going to fund a center radiator for you. You need more cooling and we need to see if a center radiator will actually provide cooling and if so, how much. Win win for all.
Jason, glad it was a good day. I propose that we get another go-fund-me account going to fund a center radiator for you. You need more cooling and we need to see if a center radiator will actually provide cooling and if so, how much. Win win for all.
I feel uneasy about anymore charity stuff from the forum users, there is too much uncertainty that I can provide people a value for their money, what if the car blows up first lap with the part on, then people put money up and get nothing for it and that would really not sit right with me.
I just want to run my car and make all the data available for discussion and review. I appreciate the thought and know where you're coming from but just don't want that pressure when at the moment, I have put a lot of pressure on myself to just make the car go faster.
Understood. From my perspective I don't look at it as charity but more-so you will be tracking the car and providiing public data regardless of whether you get another part to test or not. The ability to once and for all test parts with data in a shared cost format is a win win. Sure, let's hope you have a few years left in your engine, but most adults will understand the risk/return tradeoff.
So... Couple days removed from 2 hours of hot track time, think I'm finally rehydrated. Didn't look at any video or data for a day then dug into the data a bit and sent it out to some people who's input I trust. The car feels hard to drive, feels like closer to the limit but not going as fast. The front feels pretty good but the rear keeps the hands busy a lot more than before, frankly, I'm not that good of a driver so spending so much time feeling like I'm managing limited grip is hard, and new for me. This is especially prominent trying to trail brake and through corner entry, once on the gas it is more settled but not... settled. The brakes are working really good, I saw good performance, dead consistent pedal feel and my confidence to lean on them is close to 100%. Actually saw highest ever braking G at 1.57.
The feedback I got is... I'm rusty, there are plenty of spots in my driving that are not as sharp as they were at the end of last year, Not going as deep as I can into the braking zones and over slowing the car particularly. I feel like part of the over slowing problem is that looseness on entry but regardless, it's accurate.
Also, that I should be prepared, or prepare for the stiffer setup to be a harder one to drive that I need to work into, I'm banking on it also ending up being a much faster setup to drive
After some more reflecting on that feedback and having watched some video and reviewed some data, I thought to myself... why battle when you can learn ? why get all hung up on running an X:XX.X lap when... even if I did, I would not likely know why. So, I am refocusing, No lap time goals right now, the goal is to run the best, hardest lap I can with as many setup variations as I can and start to close in on the recipe. And, to be able to have data to lean on as I progress. I'm going to fill the below (example) in for every session I run, each session will be its own tab allowing me to search all of the data for specific points of interest. What were the results with the shocks set to X, what did I do when it was raining... There is more I could have added, like tire temp but I am trying to keep it somewhat manageable and easy, if I make it too hard to get filled in between sessions, I won't do it. Blue fields need data entry, white fields calculate. Every little bit of time saved helps.
OK... Done geeking out. Couple videos from the day, really good time getting to give rides to my friends. @theprf and my buddy Chad, both of these guys were wrenching or pressing or helping on more than one late night getting the car done... and more. And to top it off, both of them spent a lot of time at the track on one of the hottest days of the year to get rides, cheer me along and just be overall the kind of dudes you want to hang with.
Jason, what are your main / tender spring rates and total available clicks of comp and rebound on your shocks, sway bar settings front/rear, and alignment specs.
Last edited by powdrhound; 07-20-2022 at 11:02 PM.
HSC 14 TOT Set in video at +9 F and +12 R
LSC 8 TOT Set in video at +4F and +6 R
REB 21 TOT Set in video at +14 F +14 R
SB Front - Stock C2
SB Rear GT3 - 2/4
Camber F 4
Camber R 3
Toe F 0
Toe R 3/32 in
Tire pressure from 30PSI F and R to 35/36, felt best and fastest at 30.
Based on your chart, you are finding the car loose on turn entry and exit where you report oversteer. Couple of observations Jason. The main spring rates you have (900/1100) are not a source of your problem. They are quite mild actually and substantially softer than what I would recommend for a full on track car with some aero. Personally, when running a high quality shock like the 3 way JRZ you have, I have never found the car to be more challenging to drive when spring rates were increased, quite the contrary actually. With stiffer rates, your pitch and roll will be reduced keeping the car closer to it's sweetspot and the chassis faster to respond to input. I would actually say you should be at least 300lbs stiffer all around for the NT01s you are running. By comparison, when I ran NT01s years ago, I ran 1400/1500 rates and found it to be optimal on the RS Pros.
Where in my opinion you would benefit is from different tender rates. You have the same tenders on both the front and rear of the car which is not ideal on a chassis with 40/60 weight distribution. Most vendors do not understand this and typically sell the shocks with identical tenders on all 4 corners. Take a look at the tender rates on a 996 or 997Cup. They are always stiffer in the rear. You should look at the block load of your tenders and increase the rears to give you a 40/60 block load matching the weight distribution of the car. This will serve a couple of things, one being the fact that as your inside main springs unload in a turn , you want the tenders to unload at the same rate. The other is that on turn entry as the weight is transferred to the front axle, the stiffer rear tenders will press the inside rear tire "into" the pavement with more authority at the main spring unloads. This will settle the rear of the car down and reduce the turn entry oversteer. You can also achieve this to a degree by reducing your rear shock rebound. I would start by softening it 2 clicks initially and then soften further in 1 click increments. You can also increase the front shock rebound.
You are running a huge 275 front tire compared to a modest 305 rear (I ran the 275 NT01 with a 335 rear). As such you are fighting for grip in the rear by all means possible including max angle on your wing. You need more grip in the rear but that's not easily accomplished. Are you using a Gurney flap on the rear wing? If not, think about adding one as that will increase downforce. You are using a stock front C2 swaybar. Install a 5 way 996Cup/GT3 sway bar which will give you a chance to stiffen up the front axle. I would start with the front sway at full stiff with the existing spring rates and then adjust the rear bar to suit. I would also increase front low/high compression one or two clicks. Maybe go up 1 psi on your front tire pressure.
These are the immediate items that jump out at me. I have not mentioned your LSD but I assume yours is in good shape with a modest preload? What are you running, a Guard? Make a methodical approach to your changes and document the results so you can go back and evaluate the results. Good luck...
Last edited by powdrhound; 07-21-2022 at 12:44 AM.
The only thing i can add from my set up is that the front sway bar does count. I tried to loosen my gmg bar and the front and the car felt very loose. Right now with my stockish gt3 ohlin spring rates i run the front and back 1 hole from tight and i think u may need more in the front.
07-16-2022, 07:39 PM
