crw

Who needs an auction to break the $200K barrier on a C4S:

https://www.ryanfriedmanmotorcars.co...era-4s-c-1152/

autobonrun

I like that color combination. It’s different in a good way.

NB 993

it was a lovely car, still licking my wounds!

Clark W Griswold

Gbos1 just lurks this thread and looks for opportunities to try and get people to believe a 4S brings more money than a 2S.

audiporsche71

Condolences. I was following the auction closely as I have a recently acquired blk/blk '96 C4 in similar if not quite as pristine condition. It was indeed a very nice example.

Gbos1

Just the facts…. Just the facts

Clark W Griswold

crw

In the current market there are different types of buyers:

- enthusiasts, with little knowledge who sometimes overpay for a car
- enthusiasts , with knowledge that buy cars
- speculators, since most fixed investments return very little these days, see these cars as a chance to make money

When things shake out (who knows when?) - interest rates rise, the economy slows, and cheap money goes away:

- the really nice cars (accident free, near original, no stories) will continue to rise in value, although much slower
- average cars will drop a bit in cost
- there will be less demand as some people will have less disposable income

toona

Those different types of buyers are always in the market.

I can paint some other scenarios in addition to your bear case. Call them the base, bull and super bull case for prices:

- the rate of change in inflation cools somewhat later this year, but prices are sticky and continue to rise gradually because real rates stay deeply negative even after Fed tightening cycle (which they have said explicitly they will and if you understand the national debt burden, you know why it is a necessity)
- this lasts a lot longer than people expect, supply chain issues remain for years and inflation leads to more inflation (as it typically does) -- so absolute prices are much higher even after things cool
- the tokenization of car titles allows buyers to pool together to get access to scarce collector items in a world with high inflation, and middle man friction greatly reduced

Personally I think modern collector cars like 993s are still great value when you consider the prices of digital assets that dont cash flow and dont provide anything remotely close to the real life experience of driving one. Reducing friction and improving proof/transfer of ownership can unlock a lot of value.

mkhanshaw

In a weird way I am kind of bothered by the skyrocketing values.

Hear me out: We have these lovely 993s to enjoy (well, nearly all of us as there ARE speculators and flippers in the mix and I respect the game)....and the higher these values push.....the more nervous I become about taking my 12k mile pristine 1997 C4S out of the garage. I did get it out for a 40 mile stretch this weekend in nearby country roads through vineyards...but nervous the entire time for even a squirrel to hit the valance.

Shoot I have even now parked it differently WITHIN the garage, giving even more space around it causing me to do a few wiggles before it comes out of the garage. If my car had expected age mileage on it (somewhere north of 60-80k miles), i'd probably not be as nervous as a hooker in church around it.

My intention was to keep this car as look as I could operate a 3-pedal...but with the prices being what they are, it makes me feel like im foolish not to try and sell it, profit then go buy a higher mileage 993 to keep enjoying thats been sorted, and put the $$$ into something else.
If our intention is to truly appreciate and enjoy the car...does this valuation push upward make us all reconsider our positions on our cars, regardless of mileage? Anyone else in the same boat as me?

I just want to drive the damn thing and grin...not grit.

caffeineninja

This is why I drive a 100K mile C2. I didn't buy the car for it to be a garage queen. I invested into the car, refreshing the suspension, motor and any sort of wear & tear bit, and it drives just as well as a 30K mile C2. After 100K, the values generally offer diminishing returns, there's minimal difference (IMO) between 100K miles and 150K miles. Counter to that, there is a huge difference between 50K and 100K, for example.

I honestly think that mileage as an indicator of value is flawed.

Gbos1

Despite what you say….you will never be able to replace it! Heck your car would probably fetch $215k in this market. Even a high mile C4S is gonna fetch $150k or better then you have to sink a bunch of money on top of what you paid. Problem is right now is supply and demand on these cars and there isn’t enough supply to meet the demand.

INTMD8

It doesn't matter to me. Your example wouldn't apply to my C4s with 67k miles but I suppose could use that thinking with my 15k mile F355. Would rather keep the cars I have knowing their condition.

So, to sell a great car at a premium, finding a replacement isn't easy or inexpensive (even a driver is going to cost quite a bit) then add on repairs/sorting to get it where you want you may not end up with that much money in your pocket all said and done.

Would only make sense to sell if you don't plan to replace it, IMO.

autobonrun

I agree 100%. If maintained these cars can have a very long life. My C4S has 78k miles and my SC which I’ve owned 37 years has 217k miles. Both drive like the day I bought them. The SC actually drives better because it can breathe again with SSI headers and a dual out exhaust.

The best advice I received on this board in 2005 was to buy the 50k mile C4S over a more expensive 20k mile one.

toona

I get the arguments for trading into a higher mileage vehicle, and by all means think you should do it if it means you'll enjoy it that much more. Its rare that you make an emotional purchase that turns into a smart financial one, so for me it just means I enjoy the car that much more. I recently went the other way because I realized I want to keep a 6spd c4s forever and I'd rather have my dream spec.