Originally Posted by JAB12

^^^^^ Adding to this. My 2022 992 is a 4S (car on my avatar) By the numbers it is faster than the 2S and you can offset the weight by spec'ing light weight glass and sunroof delete and manual transmission which is lighter than the PDK. All 3 options are present on this car. So technically she is lighter than your average 992 C2S. But then again, this is a 993 thread, so I digress. Best to all.

Originally Posted by Clark W Griswold

Did you just say a 992 is lighter than a 993 C2S?

edit: nvm you said 992. Yea totally irrelevant. Lightweight glass etc are not 993 options. Also I kinda doubt lightweight glass and a manual transmission are making up the weight difference of a awd system in a 992 but I also have no idea and we will assume you are correct.

Originally Posted by JAB12

Yes I was referring to 992s and yes it makes up the weight savings difference on the current variant. Do your research.

Originally Posted by notfastenough

As a seller or a seller's representative we initiate the odometer conversation. Transparency and full disclosure establish trust. A visual inspection and simple documentation for a repair is mandatory. One doesn't have to agree with that practice, but I can assure you if a seller presents optics that he's hiding anything he'll spook many buyers. That would include not granting permission to remove a speedo for inspection. It's such a non-invasive and simple procedure, why not?



Started last week? Most competent independents have been doing this for years. Perhaps it's a new revelation on BaT. Amazing to me that you can type out "NO basis in reality." lol. When breakage of a particular critical component is the rule rather than exception that's as real as it gets. Again, why are you throwing a tantrum just because a buyer wants to know IF an odo has been fixed and the quality of the repair? Complain all you want; with the huge prices of these cars it's real, it's been real for a while, and it's here to stay. However... (and please grasp this!) at the end of the day as long as the paper trail and documentation are sound I would never walk away from a great car just because I couldn't inspect the speedo. A bad bezel re-crimping job can always be fixed later.

Originally Posted by notfastenough

Let me explain speedogate from a Woodward and Bernstein perspective:

Our goal in performing pre-purchase inspections is to report our findings based on direct evidence, offer repair plans and estimates, and provide an opinion of value if asked. (Anymore I hesitate to offer it simply because it's the wild, wild, west right now with crazy prices.) Of course odometers break and of course people get them fixed. Why inspect the back of a speedo? Because there's a lot of shoddy work done re-crimping bezels. Just like any work done on a car for sale our customers want to know:
1. IF work has been done.
2. The quality of the work.
3. If documentation supports the work that was done.

Based on those three points buyers have every right to know what the back of a speedo looks like. Why the outrage? The lady doth protest too much, methinks. Anyone who was paying attention to the BaT auctions read comments from people who had no idea broken odo gears were a thing until it was brought up. Because it's so common we treat it as a trivial matter. When they break we repair them and add back in the lost mileage the owner calculates he drove while broken. No harm; no foul. Pretending that the whole exercise should just be ignored casts suspicion and raises doubts. Baffling to me why some of you are advocating this? Does this trigger a true TMU situation? No idea. That's not up to me to decide. HelpMeHelpYou nailed it: Mileage is merely an indicator, not a definer.

During the Whirling Dervish and lynch mob that was going on in previous posts here someone inferred "how does it even benefit Beck's to bring up these boogeymen?" (Speedos, check straps, and valve guides.) It doesn't! We get paid to report the news; not be activists or serve some self-interest. (An anomaly in this current culture!) We don't play favorites and our reports are objective. Our shop is busier than we want to be and there seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel. I comment on BaT for entertainment and because I want to help buyers. One pet peeve? When sellers purposefully leave out close-ups of door check strap brackets. Like the speedos, we've all seen some grotesque "repairs" done to these. Again, buyers deserve to see this.

Tony, please go back and read my comments during the 4k mile Zenith Blue '98 cab on BaT. I assure you we know how to check engine hours using our KTS-301, PST2, PIWIS, and AutoLogic scanners. My comments were based on professional, personal observation and ownership of that car; credentials that no one else in the room had. For those of you who attacked that car with false assumptions... I hope you learned a lesson. BTW: The owner ended up selling the car after the auction and it's headed back to our shop. The new owner wants that ridiculous black paint removed from the hood and the top replaced.

For those of you who cry about "non bidders" ruining auctions on BaT: You need to stop yelling at the sky. You fail to understand or you're in denial that BaT's life blood is commentary from non-bidders! It's the basis for their business model. How many affluent, qualified buyers on BaT have the technical savvy, experience, and knowledge to personally vet a car? Close to zero. They expect lots of background noise and yammering to help them navigate. And they're smart enough to separate the sheep from the goats.

Final thoughts: I appreciate diverse opinions but please be civil about expressing them. Which reminds me... I apologize for using the term muppet. lol. That was a bit harsh.

Thanks,
Frank Beck

Originally Posted by Gbos1

Read Engine hours??? What

Originally Posted by Clark W Griswold

yea you can check engine hours through obd2 with the right tool.

Originally Posted by Clark W Griswold

yea you can check engine hours through obd2 with the right tool.

Originally Posted by autobonrun

Sounds like another reason to buy a 1995 with OBD1.

Originally Posted by Braun

Frank, thank you for your response, I appreciate it! Some follow-on questions for you…

Is a correct and competent 993 odometer repair always detectable upon expert visual inspection? Always? I'm not willing to go there. I've seen a lot but not everything however yes; every one I've seen is detectable.

Conversely, can a quality repair ever be indistinguishable from an original untouched odometer? Haven't seen one yet.

You mentioned that you can read out cumulative 993 engine hours, did I understand that correctly? Yes. Bosch Hammer, Porsche System Tester 2, PIWIS, and AutoLogic all have this capability on OBD2 cars.
If stored, can the engine hours log be permanently erased from memory on 993? Never tried.

Is there a rough correlation ratio you would expect for 993 total engine hours vis-à-vis total odometer mileage – e.g. engine hours/mile or miles/engine hour – a general range not a specific ratio? Our current survey in Scottsdale averages out at about 33MPH. Obviously different regions and driving habits could drastically change this number.

The expectation for 993 odometer failure will become common knowledge over time, so I strongly feel that 993 owners and sellers should be prepared to address it. Ultimately, I believe it will become routine for buyers to insist on odometer documentation to approximate actual mileage. Savvy buyers will try to sort the honest, responsible owners and sellers from the dishonest “free riders” who put on unknown miles during odometer failure and then pass the car off as “low mileage.”

I firmly believe you are correct sir.

Originally Posted by Clark W Griswold

this makes no sense unless you are interested in misrepresenting mileage.

you can check hours and my understanding is it has to be a Porsche brand tool. Even then you’re gonna need to corroborate hours with miles which makes my head hurt thinking about it. What if you average 130mph?

the only useful thing it could do I guess is show a massive difference but I think condition would be an easier way to come to this conclusion.