Braun

Frank, I'm one who appreciates any further understanding for what I'm getting into as a 993 buyer...or as a seller for that matter.

As a 993 seller, what documentation do you give to prospective buyer when you repair the speedometer/odometer as you described? Does buyer have to ask you about the repair and request it unsolicited, or do you proved the documentation automatically upon buyer interest and inquiry?

As a 993 buyer, what documentation would you accept from seller to avoid removal and inspection of speedometer/odometer?

Given the high likelihood that many 993 speedometer/odometers have failed due to age at this point, not necessarily due to mileage and use, it seems prudent for any serious 993 buyer to request documentation for speedometer/odometer repair and or ask for inspection in the absence thereof. Just my $.02

This is response to 'NotFastEnough' Frank Beck post on 01.14.2022

Gbos1

Just analyze the maintenance records. Will tell the story.

HelpMeHelpU

Listen to @Onami . He's local and he knows these cars, having owned several. It looks like a cool car. The price isn't outrageous and there might be some wiggle room.

This shop--www.rpmvt.com--is not too far from the dealer and I believe they know these cars reasonably well.

crw

In a sellers market, the more you request pre-purchase, the more likely a good car will be bought out from under you.

mdude

This narrative about 993 speedo failure started last week w/ that BaT auction. It has NO basis in reality.
911r was kind enough to pull the back of the speedo but to demand that this become a new standard PPI procedure bothers on the absurd.

No, actually, it is absurd!

Am seeing a similar fate to the once long-held assertion that compression/leak down is a reliable insurance against SAI; which has since been thoroughly debunked...

TheDangerZone

Actually, I would argue BaT’s lifeblood would be the sellers who want to use the platform to list their sought after cars. Many (most?) prospective sellers don’t want to deal with the fair or unfair scrutiny that cars can be placed upon during an auction. It is especially annoying when so called experts call things into question that have no basis in reality or plant seeds of doubt into possible bidders. I would think long and hard about listing my no stories car there. The auction premium is currently in BaT’s favor and enough sellers are willing to go through the gauntlet, but you’re mistaken if you think commentary is the most important component. It is often a value add, but scare off too many sellers with poor results and the whole model falls apart.

notfastenough

As a seller or a seller's representative we initiate the odometer conversation. Transparency and full disclosure establish trust. A visual inspection and simple documentation for a repair is mandatory. One doesn't have to agree with that practice, but I can assure you if a seller presents optics that he's hiding anything he'll spook many buyers. That would include not granting permission to remove a speedo for inspection. It's such a non-invasive and simple procedure, why not?

Started last week? Most competent independents have been doing this for years. Perhaps it's a new revelation on BaT. Amazing to me that you can type out "NO basis in reality." lol. When breakage of a particular critical component is the rule rather than exception that's as real as it gets. Again, why are you throwing a tantrum just because a buyer wants to know IF an odo has been fixed and the quality of the repair? Complain all you want; with the huge prices of these cars it's real, it's been real for a while, and it's here to stay. However... (and please grasp this!) at the end of the day as long as the paper trail and documentation are sound I would never walk away from a great car just because I couldn't inspect the speedo. A bad bezel re-crimping job can always be fixed later.

notfastenough

I certainly can't argue that sellers aren't important. lol.

I totally agree with your "gauntlet" comment. It can be grueling and it's certainly not for the faint of heart or the thin-skinned. I do find it puzzling that no one seems to have a problem with all the adoring fan boys swooning over a car with ridiculous, non-productive praise but professional, critical analysis is somehow a bridge too far.

notfastenough

BTW: I found the black C2S (Silver Arrow Cars) and silver C2S (Avant Garde) on BaT to be fascinating case studies!

Both sellers have wonderful reputations but scripted the less-than-spectacular results simply because they didn't dot their I's and cross their T's. They both missed crucial problems and when exposed by knowledgeable commenters lost ground. It proves that even the best sellers can't overcome negative momentum. This was their fault; no one else's.

Tlaloc75

I’d argue the flip side of this. It is the intense scrutiny that gives buyers confidence. It is that confidence that has created the BAT premium. It is that premium that attracts sellers. You don’t get one without the other. See pcar for example.

I’ve sold on bat and I welcome the scrutiny. As a seller I want a fair deal for both parties and I would never want to give the impression that I’m trying to hide anything material. That’s what makes the BAT model work.

JAB12

I have been 993-less for about 7 months now so hardly come into this thread, but let me address a few previous comments from a personal experience position:

1.- Anyone interested in a car within 30 miles from my zip code (33139) I am happy to go and check it out for you, as per what @HelpMeHelpU mentioned.
2.- The old 4 v 2 or 4S v 2S argument is like the chicken and egg argument. Who came first? I can add from having owned both a C4S and a C2S at the same time for multiple years and a few thousand miles properly driven on each car that unequivocally I will take the 4S over the 2S, it is more of a car. The C2S others have posted, it is more beautiful to look at, twin grille etc., but it is nothing more than a C2 with a wider body. No factory upgrades whatsoever. If I were to get back into the 993 itch, my first call would be to the current owner of my former C4S.
3.- RE: BAT. mixed reviews here. The most benefit is the exposure for sellers and the superlow listing fee, however, there are a few BAT commenters in there that have never bid or bought a car on the platform, that all they do is be keyboard warriors and attempt to be 'scholar experts' on these cars. All they achieve is create doubt on potential bidders of a certain ilk. I've only sold a Mercedes AMG bumper on BAT and even that got scorched scrutiny by non bidders. Pair that with the Pcar market fiasco of my C2S and I will remain on the old school way of selling cars any time I decide to thin out the herd again. As a side note, BAT offered a reserve for my C2S which was $40K less than what she sold for. So that was a hard pass from day 1.

Good luck all!

Paolo1

Oh boy you seem to have inadvertently made the case for the C2S ""The C2S others have posted, it is more beautiful to look at, twin grille etc., but it is nothing more than a C2 with a wider body." But I love them all. Except for a rare few.

Clark W Griswold

haha was thinking the same thing. “Factory upgrades” like suspension are a non starter in 2022. Big brakes and awd at the cost of added weight are not really compelling. And the market seems to agree.

JAB12

^^^^^ Adding to this. My 2022 992 is a 4S (car on my avatar) By the numbers it is faster than the 992 2S and you can offset the weight by spec'ing light weight glass and sunroof delete and manual transmission which is lighter than the PDK. All 3 options are present on this car. So technically she is lighter than your average 992 C2S. But then again, this is a 993 thread, so I digress. Best to all.

Clark W Griswold

Did you just say a 992 is lighter than a 993 C2S?

edit: nvm you said 992. Yea totally irrelevant. Lightweight glass etc are not 993 options. Also I kinda doubt lightweight glass and a manual transmission are making up the weight difference of a awd system in a 992 but I also have no idea and we will assume you are correct.