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On the steering side, What do I have to do in order to modify it without damaging it and without creating a risk for the on board safety?
The car will be very lightweight, so I don't think it will be such a big issue driving it without the power steering assistance.
I converted my Miata PS rack to manual by dissembling it, removing the seals (drag) and then tack welding pinion gear to remove slop.
The slop in the pinion gear is what is directing fluid to assist effort. It's a coursed splined shaft.
Before embarking on such a journey try running it dry but be sure to loop the lines or you'll get intermittent lockup. If you can tolerate the effort the gutted rack will be even easier and more precise.
Google gutted Miata steering rack and you'll find lots of good info. While the 993 rack maybe different they do operate on the same principle.
FWIW most Miata track guys prefer the faster gutted PS rack to the slower manual one. Heck I run 245 slicks with 7 degrees of castor using a 320mm steering wheel and never think about it.
As a RLer noticed the b-pillar pieces are still in place, and also all the parts to hang the rear side panels, to install the rear seats and seat belts, that if I wanted to do a true RS interior, they should be all removed so that it would look as a 100% true tribute to the 993 RS.
And yes, this is going to be something very close to a 993 rs clubsport tribute, but as the VIN teaches us all, she will also remain something else for the Porsche registry, i.e. a 993 carrera.
So basically from my point of view it is very important that the car can be easily brought back to her original layout, with her original components, cockpit, etc.
Maybe it's just a personal point of view, but while I am going for a tribute, I also don't understand all this tendency to go for tributes, which to be truly so, should be made using the original shocks and not much more modern ones, should use standard engine kit, and not upgrades of them, so basically everyone is adding more performing parts, but replicating the same identical interiors...because it has to look the same.
They want the car to look like, but also to go faster than the original...understandable, totally, I am doing the same, only just it doesn't matter to me if the car will not look 100% same as what she will never be, but yes, I am definitely going for all the modifications that are going to make the drive experience sharper and more accurate.
The fact that here in Italy by installing a full welded matter cage doesn't allow the car to be driven on open roads (apart from very specific and rare exceptions, like everywhere is, I think about the two 959 road legal in the USA back in the 80s), I really thank the circumstance, so the car, being without the lifting system, without the cage, without the secondary oil cooler, without the big brake rotors, should weigh something between 80 and 90 kg less than the CUP car.
And no, I don't need a secondary cooler (~+15/20kg), the car will never be an homologated racing car, she will not make endurance, but only short trackday sessions reserved to road cars with licence plate.
So no car lifting system needed (+15kg), no heavier big red rotors (+15kg), no full welded cage (42kg), which is for safety, and torsional rigidity under heavy track driving stress, she will not have to face.
All the systems and subsystems are going to be the original ones, airbags deleted, but again, electrical system ready to accept them back in place.
The engine will benefit of the varioram intake upgrade, but the mechanical part of the engine is going to be its stock M64.05 engine part (1mm smaller in/out valve diameter than the M64.21, hydraulic lifting system, original crankshaft, etc.etc.), only perfectly balanced together with a single mass flywheel and pressure plate, also eventually reversible to a DMF.
if the 993 Cup weights 1130 kg, Limoncella should be around 1050kg (with standard steel doors, which are heavier than the RS/CUP ones) with engine output prevision between 272hp and 300hp.
I contacted a very well known carbon fiber producer, I was eventually ready for facing very crazy expensive upgrades, but luckily 😅 they answered that the list price doesn't allow any discount...oh thanks God, already having steel front fenders, fiberglass front lid, doors, they gave me the excuse not to spend more money...
yes, it was for a good reason, 40 kg of further weight reduction would have been super nice, but I think who works in the field doesn't show very much comprehension of two (maybe three or four) very basic things:
1) private customers are not racing teams: ironically the producers reserve a better treatment to such realities like racing teams, which usually have sponsors behind them, than to private customers, which are basically willing to appreciate their products because of the enthusiasm they put into the "thing" - like maybe women made with their shoes - Don't ever make them come out from their dreaming, otherwise they would realise 300 pair of shoes are already more than "strictly" necessary,as much for us isn't necessary at all upgrading our cars.
honestly, it should be the opposite, not only for marketing, but business related.
2) maybe because of the first point and also because it is about Porsche, they basically seem to put themselves in a position where they are the ones on the working side, while we, as Porsche owners, we are not working, we are just spoiled fellows, wealthy and annoyed.
OK, if all of the above were right, they should thank us all for being so spoiled, since otherwise a very consistent part of their business wouldn't exist, or maybe their company wouldn't exist, since racing driver, from what I've been able to see so far, aren't unhealthy guys.
If they don't understand that spoiled or not, wealthy or not, for doing such things you have to be enthusiast of what you are doing, basically willing to spend a huge amount of your personal time in it, and this means, because of the fact they don't understand this, that for them it is just a job.
I dont think they merit their parts to be installed onto a car which is 100% rebuilt just because of love and enthusiasm.
3) so in the end also respecting the reciprocal position is very missing: I understood their position very well, I am respecting their answer, but I have to respect my personal condition as well, as much as the spirit of the project, so I am not buying anything from them.
Supply and demand do not meet, on the supply side they speak the language of business and in fact they understand each other with those realities for which it is a business, the car teams.
While the enthusiast is basically a chicken to be plucked ... I don't know about you, but in the morning when I look in the mirror I don't see feathers.
I am trying saving and reusing the most of the car, it is such a shame not trying to recover these parts that survived after 4,5 years under water, but only when this is not going to diminish the final result, because I like the idea of having her original stuff installed and also because of some saving.
The next couple weeks are for the bolts, nuts, studs, supports to be zync plated, and then I will catalogue them and check what is missing
Last edited by nothingbutgt3; 05-17-2021 at 05:16 AM.
As I said more than once, at first I am going to rebuild the original braking system (calipers and rotors) introducing an important upgrade in the front, where I couldn't notice that in the heavy braking during the track sessions the rotors cracks not just a few.
Racing brake seems to be the only producer where I was able to source a floating brake rotor in the 304mm diameter, I will install them on the silver 993 first, and after a while when will start to rebuild the car, on the lemon yellow one.
Can't wait to try them the 13th June at the Mugello circuit for the Pirelli Driving Experience day.
I will couple the rotors with pagid yellow braking pads.
Each rotor weighs 1,5 kg less than the OEM Zimmermann Premium replacement i used in the past years, it would be cool to source the rear floating disc's as well, not for cracking reason, but for weight reduction purpose (more or less some other 3kg in the rear), but from what I could understand so far, there must be some kind of problem to couple them with the brake pads: this would be something that I would like to understand in the following months to see if there is a way to do it on the lemon yellow 993.
They are both good looking
The weight scale doesn't lie...
Not bad
Yesterday a very lucky friend invited me to go have a look to the brand new 992 GT3... and wow, what a rocket car!
Shark... Not just the color
😎 You need sun glasses
Gourmet Pizza time
Last edited by nothingbutgt3; 05-25-2021 at 04:20 AM.
Very nice! Always a special moment when the body is going to be painted. It will turn out great I am sure 👍
How was Mugello?
Mugello was amazing, the whole day.
Pirelli offered a very special day for car enthusiasts, providing 6 hours of open pit lane and same time the possibility to jump on hyper cars such as Pagani Hyuayra, McLaren 7xx, Lambo Huracan, Dallara, all driven from their pro drivers, plus the possibility of test driving BMW M series and Mercedes AMG SLS on the track...
I tried the Pirelli Trofeo R on the silver 993 in the standard 17 inch sizes, and what can I say, it was frustrating realising not being able to profit of their sticky compound and very sincere Tyre structure reactions as much as they would merit.
But same time their extra grip hability was very helpful in a couple of situations... If only Pirelli did a 140/150 treadwear compound for let's say 20% lower price, on the same Tyre structure, they would be the perfect tyres to make sessions and getting used to circuits in a much more affordable way.
I don't know if a photograph cought me while I was controlling the car between Arrabbiata 1 and arrabbiata 2 turns at at least 140km/h with car sliding in controlled oversteer...it was pulp and also fun and I must admit really gave me satisfaction, I realised that when I see pro drivers controlling their cars on the limit, it is not dangerous, it is what gives them pleasure of driving, I mean, they are in their cockpits exactly for that reason!
I think tyres played an important role in allowing me controlling such situations, because the Trofeo R compound is not only sticky, but the grip is also very consistent, lap after lap, with 32°C air degrees and probably more than 50 on the tarmac, the other tyres I tried so far would have overheated in just a lap, Trofeo R didn't in 12 consecutive laps.
This really enabled to take confidence with the circuit and car behavior, the possibility of driving under the same grip conditions.
It was probably the very first time I experienced the kind of grip one could have while driving a race car.
The hard braking was amazing at the San Donato, making the car turn at around 70km/h, arriving at 230 GPS km/h and braking at the 100 meters shield... It was embarrassing how hard the car with such brakes (all very brand new fitted) and tyres was decelerating.
I can't wait for experiencing the same situation with a 100kg lighter and way more track focused 993 like the Limoncella is going to be, also with a bit better aero, not dramatically better, but better.
Last but not least, I don't think in the turns the supercool and New gt3 rs are turning or braking so much more than the 993 can do, it is the way they do it to be embarrassing... So composed and firm... While on the 993 it is a fight... Plus they have a simple and amazing advantage while pushing the gas pedal to the metal... It is in the easiest part of the driving that these cars get the laptime advantage...gas and gear change.
I don't think it is there that a driver gets the pleasure from the driving experience... Then it is quite easy with all the controls on and gearbox in D to lap such cars 12 seconds faster than same person (me) on his 993, but basically they are driving "coffee machines", I mean, car is driving the driver.
Last edited by nothingbutgt3; 06-17-2021 at 09:42 AM.
Then it is quite easy with all the controls on and gearbox in D to lap such cars 12 seconds faster then same person (me) on his 993, but basically they are driving coffee machines, I mean, car is driving the driver.
A few months ago I was fortunate to have the opportunity to drive my 993 and a 992S (with PDK) back-to-back on the track at the Porsche Experience Center in Atlanta. It was the first time I have had the 993 on a track and even for someone with modest driving ability like myself it was a joy to feel the movement of the car at speed in a track environment. I was able to feel the car slide and rotate a bit, and it did so in such an easy and controlled manner. It really was great fun!
The 992, on the other hand, felt immensely faster and really was a bit like driving a car in a video game. I felt like I could lay into the throttle and turn the wheel and the car would pretty much go wherever I pointed it. My ham-fisted driving did get the backend to come out at one point when I added too much steering/throttle trying to hit an apex, but I am no delusion the recovery was due to my skill and not the cars electronic wizardry. Don't get me wrong, the 992 looks great, sounds great, and accelerates like a rocket ship. (And hearing the blip of two perfect downshifts as I nailed the brakes at the end of the back straight and turned into the first bend made me grin from ear to ear.) It was great fun to drive, but offered a considerably less involving and intimate experience than I had just minutes before with my 993.
A few months ago I was fortunate to have the opportunity to drive my 993 and a 992S (with PDK) back-to-back on the track at the Porsche Experience Center in Atlanta. It was the first time I have had the 993 on a track and even for someone with modest driving ability like myself it was a joy to feel the movement of the car at speed in a track environment. I was able to feel the car slide and rotate a bit, and it did so in such an easy and controlled manner. It really was great fun!
The 992, on the other hand, felt immensely faster and really was a bit like driving a car in a video game. I felt like I could lay into the throttle and turn the wheel and the car would pretty much go wherever I pointed it. My ham-fisted driving did get the backend to come out at one point when I added too much steering/throttle trying to hit an apex, but I am no delusion the recovery was due to my skill and not the cars electronic wizardry. Don't get me wrong, the 992 looks great, sounds great, and accelerates like a rocket ship. (And hearing the blip of two perfect downshifts as I nailed the brakes at the end of the back straight and turned into the first bend made me grin from ear to ear.) It was great fun to drive, but offered a considerably less involving and intimate experience than I had just minutes before with my 993.
The recent 911 are amazing 911, but the man in the equation, counts a lot less.
it very much depends on what we personally consider interesting about driving a car.
For most of the people arriving first, or before someone else, makes the day: to me the laptime sets a point of reference for myself, to be compared to the feelings and perception while I was driving the car, time after time, maybe with a bit of training, things and laptimes get better and become consistent.
it is a very intimate challenge, performed openly and even if you are a shy type of person, in that specific situation who has eyes, can see a large part of your true nature...there is no other way of doing it, so it's a bit of a stretch, but concentration and adrenaline make you forget it very quickly.
Thanks both for your testimonies, always interesting to see people driving the 993 on track and progressing with their driving abilities. It is part of the journey to master these 993 beasts on a track :-)
Thanks both for your testimonies, always interesting to see people driving the 993 on track and progressing with their driving abilities. It is part of the journey to master these 993 beasts on a track :-)
From what I've understood so far, the set up must be done from some specialist that is able to make for real the type of car you are willing to drive.
And from what I could see, very few people are able to set the 993, knowing exactly the effect of each move would mean a final result reflecting what the owner/driver was asking.
Set up that way the 993 provides loads of feedbacks and it is relatively easy becoming a single thing with the car, other side of the car is set up not that way, it is going to be a very slow 911 and not satisfying at all.
Yesterday doubt, an important detail I must check on the silver 993: the inner side of door sills were sealed with some kind of foam/putty before painting the car?
Last edited by nothingbutgt3; 06-19-2021 at 09:42 AM.
From what I've understood so far, the set up must be done from some specialist that is able to make for real the type of car you are willing to drive.
And from what I could see, very few people are able to set the 993, knowing exactly the effect of each move would mean a final result reflecting what the owner/driver was asking.
Set up that way the 993 provides loads of feedbacks and it is relatively easy becoming a single thing with the car, other side of the car is set up not that way, it is going to be a very slow 911 and not satisfying at all.
Yesterday doubt, an important detail I must check on the silver 993: the inner side of door sills were sealed with some kind of foam/putty before painting the car?
05-11-2021, 07:38 PM
