Schn3ll

Big investment for a low take rate doesn’t make a whole lot of sense for a company that now has a public stock offering and continues to push for higher margins.

They would need to design and engineer a new manual transmission, test and validate it, then crash test it (need to crash test both transmissions) and then manufacture a whole (large) assembly component further complicating mass production. All for a transmission not even offered in the largest market (China) and dwindling take rates in other markets.

I love manuals and have a unique personal insight with most of my career in developing and manufacturing consumer goods. Even the most ardent defenders of the manuals within Porsche will agree that they are not long for this world.

3uros

Well, we know for a fact that the S and GTS will indeed have some sort of hybrid set-up (Green EV stickers on test vehicles) and Frank Walliser has stated in several interviews that their goal to meet EU 7 standards is to increase displacement since there will be a cap on power per liter of displacement once EU 7 standards take effect.

Several folks here want to believe that Porsche will engineer a manual mild hybrid but I don't believe it. I'll believe it when I see it....I've never read anything about the manual transmissions engineered to accommodate a hybrid set up such as the 8 speed PDK. And that goes back years since 2018... I am willing to bet the Base Carrera and T if there is another T will be the sole manual Carreras (I doubt if Porsche will remove manuals all together especially for the important US market). The GT cars are a different story all together because they still use the old 7 speed PDK from the 991.

zachr

Manual take rate for "the rest of the 911 lineup" in the US was 20-25% in 2021, around the same time the 70% figure was released for the GT3. It's unclear to me whether that figure includes TT/S where a stick isn't available - if so, that would put the Carrera models' manual take rate very high. I would have guessed 25-30% for Carreras. I don't think the percent of manuals being built is as low as you think it is.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a3...ual-take-rate/

ipse dixit

And how many of those cars are for sale in the US of A?

I'll wait.

Schn3ll

Agree, but this is one market. Porsche did this experiment with 991.1 GT3's (no manual), and they sold every single one. That was a canary in a coalmine moment for them.

I do think they will continue to offer the manual in the GT3 and T for 992.2 - no reason not to and they can use current transmissions while appeasing the manual crowd (no brainer), but I would not expect manuals to be compatible with any hybridized 992.2 offerings.

Airbus Gangster

See above. The automotive world doesn't revolve around the US.

RatherJaded

🤔 More than some would suspect. Latest numbers for 2023 below.

zscaler

US is the highest overall profit market for Porsche.

Drew46

I have never understood why people relate - or blame - Porsche's desire to be as profitable as possible with their becoming a public company. Do we really think that when the company was privately held the shareholders were less concerned about making money on their investments/holdings?

Schn3ll

It is basic Business 101. Investors want growth and growth occurs with investor money injection, money injection is done so to improve likelihood of increased profitability and profitability equates to more dividend and stock growth for investors. The main difference is more loud voices at the table wanting investment returns.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/ans...g-public-mean/

Drew46

There is no money injection with improved numbers unless they are doing a capital raise - which they haven't. Improved stock price does not create money for the issuer - only the shareholders.

I have spent the better part of my career working with PE funds, VCs and other private investors and they are as concerned - or more - with performance than the "market". While you may have fewer voices in a private company, they tend to be much, much louder and more demanding. I am not saying that public companies are not under pressure to post good numbers (they certainly are), but that pressure isn't more than with privates. You only need to sit through one board meeting with PE firm appointed directors to understand.

So, while I agree that Porsche makes decisions to make its shareholders happy - after all, that is the purpose of a corporation in capitalism - I don't think those decisions are different or worse just because they went public.

Oreos

The path to the end profitability goal will be managed in a more linear manner in public company than a private one. That's the beauty of private ownership and a key tenant of the PE pitch, which I'm sure you're familiar with: take a co private, turn it around/reposition it/messy M&A roll up thesis then relist it once done.

Drew46

True, but Porsche was not owned by PE before it went public. My point is that all corporations - public or private - do (or should do) whatever maximizes profits for its equity and not what a small vocal portion of it customers are clamoring for. That is capitalism, without which most (or all) of us would be without the means to own a Porsche.

Airbus Gangster

So then why would it make sense to kill the manual when 70% of GT3’s in the US were sold with a stick? I’m not sure why people are so hell bent on saying the manual is dead when there has been no indication otherwise.

F250to911

I don't think that people are hell bent on eliminating manual transmissions. It's just that they see the writing on the wall.

70% of all GT3s amounts to nearly nothing. It is a rare specialty car that almost no one can own. The lucky few that get them are unique and most want the manual transmission as that is one of the qualities that defines the GT3.

The vast majority of all cars are automatic. Only 18% of all people in the US even know how to drive a stick and most of them are of the older generation. Governments are mandating mileage quotas for fleets of manufactured vehicles and every manual transmission offering increases a manufacturer's gas mileage figure for their fleet. Porsche has been one of the last manufacturers of a sports car that still even offers a manual transmission. When they go hybrid the odds are that they will no longer offer manual transmissions in the new hybrid models. I'm sure there will still be GT3s or Carrera T offerings every now and then which will offer manual transmissions. But the vast majority of the manufactured cars will be automatic.