Fishah

They can, but these ones won't.

F250to911

They can but the entire reason for going mild hybrid is to meet government quotas for environmental protection. A manual transmission pretty much negates the whole purpose of going hybrid. It would be very difficult to handle the transmission shifting needed every time the engine shifted power from the ICE engine to the electronic motors. All electric mode would probably be handicapped as well, maybe even disabled in a manual. The only mode that would make some sense with a manual transmission is a sport mode where the electric motor just assists the ICE engine.

If hybrids are coming, I would be willing to bet odds that manual transmissions will be eliminated.

michaelp

Really curious to see the GTS spec. Seems the 3.6 will be an NA engine with a hybrid system. What kind of hybrid system? Will be it be a front wheel drive electric motor, or something mated to the transmission? Brings up lots of questions. If front motor do we lose the extended range fuel tank option? Less frunk space? What about the 4GTS? How is that going to work?

Airbus Gangster

You have some super secret information no one is privy to? Or are you just making assumptions?

zachr

The PCarTalk quote above says both S and GTS get the 3.6. Which... puts us back in the same mechanically-identical place w.r.t. S vs GTS?

Also, the S getting the 3.6 seems to be the only contradiction vs the C&D article, which makes me think the source of their information is the same source as the C&D article – dubious at best, and certainly not "verifiable".

Airbus Gangster

Do governments have different EPA requirements of manuals vs automatics? I Can't find anything about that. Not to mention with paddle shifters I fail to see how that is different than a stick epa wise... Toyota, Kia, and BMW already have production model mild hybrids WITH a manual transmission. You act like this has never been done before.

detansinn

You're looking at it the wrong way. The hybrids improve the viability of manual transmissions and allow those vehicles to meet more stringent emissions requirements. It's not like there haven't been hybrid manual transmission cars before. Porsche is certainly capable of making this work. Heck, I'd love to see them do a six speed Carrera if the hybrid can help those CO2 numbers.

If the 992.2 were indeed the end of the manual transmission for the 911, I am very happy to have a three pedal car. That being said, I don't think that they'll be disappearing in the US market.

zachr

Not trying to argue against your larger point, because I agree with you: hybrid with a stick is possible, and would still have better fuel economy and emissions characteristics than a non-hybrid manual. The improvements are just more pronounced on a car with an automatic transmission. With the Boxster/Cayman and Macan going EV, and the Cayenne and Panamera Hybrids becoming more popular, I doubt Porsche will have much trouble staying right by the EPA and whatever the European equivalent is with sticks on the 911. If Porsche abandons the manual, it will be because they don't want to spend the money engineering it.

That said, specifically in response to the bold... cars are tested in their default state upon a fresh power-on. That's why you can't make your Porsche start up in Sport mode: it disables auto-start-stop which needs to be enabled for testing. As far as I know, there aren't any street cars with paddle shifters that start up locked into manual mode.

Schn3ll

Just because it conceivably can be done, doesn't mean it will actually happen. The only mild hybrid with manual I can even think of is the failed Honda CR-Z. That had under 100lb-ft of torque and the current manual has already reached its torque limit (see Sport Classic).

Every other manufacturer rolling out mild 48V hybrids has done so on automatic transmissions. BMW removed their manuals recently in favor of mild hybrid automatics, only manual available in M2/M3/M4 now without the hybrid assist.

The 48V has always primarily been designed to help with the auto start stop feature for fuel savings when idling and reduce the drivetrain NVH on startup. The manual inclusion becomes even more implausible if the 48V motor is intended to also provide eBoost (i.e. providing additional power to the wheels/transmission prior to turbo spool or in non-turbos, at initial forward momentum from a stop).

It would be great if they could find a way to keep it but based on the fact that the emissions is a factor for EU countries, fact that none of the competitors offer a manual, the complexities of integrating a manual to a hybrid system and current limitations of the existing hybrid (torque) - it seems doubtful at best.

Airbus Gangster

https://carbant.com/hybrid-manual-transmission/

Here’s a list of hybrids on the market in 2023 that come with manual transmission:

• Honda CR-Z 1.5 litre Integrated Motor Assist (IMA)
• Honda Insight 1.0 litre IMA
• Ford Puma 1.0 litre Ecoboost MHEV
• Ford Fiesta 1.0 litre Ecoboost MHEV
• Ford Focus 1.0 litre Ecoboost MHEV
• Renault Scenic 1.5 dCi Hybrid assist
• Kia Stonic 1.0 litre T-GDI ISG
• Kia Ceed 1.6 CRDi 48V ISG
• Kia Rio 1.0 T-GDI ISG
• Kia Sportage 1.6 CRDi 48V ISG
• Kia Xceed 1.6 CRDi 48V ISG
• Hyundai i20 1.0 litre i20 T-GDI MHEV
• Hyundai i30 1.5 litre GDI MHEV
• Hyundai Kona 1.0 litre MHEV
• Hyundai Tuscon 1.6CRDI MHEV
• Suzuki Swift 1.0 Boosterjet SHVS
• Suzuki Swift 1.2 litre Mild-Hybrid
• Suzuki Baleno 1.2 Dualjet MHEV
• Suzuki Ignis 1.2 Dualjet MHEV
• Suzuki Vitara 1.4 Boosterjet MHEV
• Suzuki SX4 S-Cross 1.4 Boosterjet 48V MHEV
• Nissan Qashqai 1.3 MH

Schn3ll

So many 911 competitors…

division

And how many of those are sold in the U.S.?

Airbus Gangster

Good question, no clue. But as i've said before when 70% of all GT3 orders in the US were ordered with a manual I find it hard to believe that Porsche would oust such a large customer base. Makes zero business sense. If we were talking about the 994 I'd say maybe, but not during a mid cycle refresh.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/porsch...-of-execution/

From a Oct 2023 interview:

"As reported by US publication The Drive, the head of Porsche's 911 and 718 model ranges, Frank Moser, says the brand plans to continue selling its sports cars with manual transmissions for the current generation.“[A] manual transmission is always what the customer wants in the 911, so we have been and are working as long as possible to save the manuals,” Mr Moser told The Drive.

“That’s absolutely relevant for the 911. That’s why we have the 911 [Carrera] T with a manual gearshift, and now the 911 S/T with a stick shift, and that’s really because customers want a stick shift.”

malba2366

It is definitely possible, but this is a big reason they may decide the investment is not worth the returns.

zachr

I'd go in the opposite direction... The investment is more likely to pay off because Porsche will be the only option to get a stick in a high end sports car.