New Nick Murray Video - S vs GTS
12-24-2022, 03:51 PM
#226
Racer
I only know of one person who paid $229k for a GTS that was $176k MSRP. He's probably not even on this board anymore, and that was in late April, early May. It was chalk with an aerokit.
The fact that you guys are so butthurt over my comment is funny. It was a play on other comments in this thread.
The fact that you guys are so butthurt over my comment is funny. It was a play on other comments in this thread.
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shrimp money (12-24-2022)
12-24-2022, 04:23 PM
#227
Burning Brakes
I'm not in the market for a 911 currently.
But if I was, and based on my current cars that I own, I think I would spec a T with nothing but MT, LWB and PCCBs (if/when available).
It would be my weekend car that I would toss around and couldn't care if it got dinged, whacked or whatever. Run it to the ground and get rid of it after the OEM warranty expires.
I think this is what people are getting at when they say they would pick a Base over a GTS or whatever, and money has nothing to do with it.
It's just use case.
A 175k MSRP 911 has no appeal for me. As the QPR just isn't there for me.
But if I was, and based on my current cars that I own, I think I would spec a T with nothing but MT, LWB and PCCBs (if/when available).
It would be my weekend car that I would toss around and couldn't care if it got dinged, whacked or whatever. Run it to the ground and get rid of it after the OEM warranty expires.
I think this is what people are getting at when they say they would pick a Base over a GTS or whatever, and money has nothing to do with it.
It's just use case.
A 175k MSRP 911 has no appeal for me. As the QPR just isn't there for me.
And this is exactly why I like to buy new Porsches, even if I have to wait few months longer 😜
12-24-2022, 04:26 PM
#228
Burning Brakes
I only know of one person who paid $229k for a GTS that was $176k MSRP. He's probably not even on this board anymore, and that was in late April, early May. It was chalk with an aerokit.
The fact that you guys are so butthurt over my comment is funny. It was a play on other comments in this thread.
The fact that you guys are so butthurt over my comment is funny. It was a play on other comments in this thread.
Bring it on Shrimp , you are a funny man 😆
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shrimp money (12-24-2022)
12-24-2022, 05:13 PM
#229
I assume that the "$700K car budget" comment is about my prior post in this thread. I mentioned that only to illustrate that some people (i.e. my wife and I) don't have a need to spend more money than necessary to buy more car than wanted which in this case is a nicely equipped base Carrara 4. Actually, if we follow through on the order when we get an allocation, the cost of the Carrara 4 will come out of my wife's reserve "car fund" - not that $700K. Having separate reserve funds for our vehicles is a holdover from the 13 years we lived together before we got married for financial reasons in 1991. When we finally married, we merged most of our other assets but my wife, who is a CPA, wanted to keep our reserves for vehicles separate because I was driving expensive cars while she preferred to drive small inexpensive cars. She budgets/allocates for expenditures and tracks every cent we spend. Everything is documented in Quicken. She's obsessive. How many people other that me are presented with an updated financial statement every weekday after the markets have closed? She's retired and nearing 75 but is still expending quite a lot of time and energy fulfilling requirements to maintain her CPA license "just in case" she needs to go back to paid work.
I didn't make it clear that the "$700K car budget" was for now and not annual. Just because she's OK with me spending a buttload of money doesn't mean that I'm going to. And I don't want to. I was surprised when she came up with that figure and suspected that she was trying to cheer me up due to how COVID has impacted us - hospitalizations, deaths and lingering illness among family and friends. But I'm just not that into cars anymore. Maybe it's age - I'll soon be 73. I had five/six cars at a time when younger but now I can barely tolerate dealing with two. I can appreciate cars without owning them. If I want a "fix" of exotic cars, I'll walk across the cul-de-sac to a neighbor's house and admire his Maserati collection while drinking his expensive wine. He appreciates the company.
My wife and I have always asked each other's permission before purchasing almost anything. We're a team. I asked my wife if it was OK to purchase a new $150 torque wrench when I bought the new Cayenne in August since my 50 year old torque wrench was not suitable for tightening Porsche lug nuts to 118 ft lbs. I asked her if it was OK to buy a $50 Porsche first aid kit from Suncoast last week. We're actually quite frugal. My wife has never got over a childhood in which her babysitting income went to purchase food which she never got enough of due to older brothers. I can't forget that there was a time when I couldn't find work and was down to my last $10. I still sometime have to assure my wife that it's OK for her to buy what she wants and that we can afford our favorite restaurants whenever we want.
I think my wife would enjoy a Carrara 4 but she's wavering on following through. Her main concern is that she would damage it or at a minimum trash its wheels on curbs. I've been reminding her that the 911 is smaller than her Prius wagon, that a 911 would have more parking aids, that she has a handicapped parking permit that usually allows parking in oversize spaces and that cars can be fixed if damaged. Although she won't admit it, it's obvious that she is "into" luxury car brands for whatever prestige she associates with them. I can visualize her telling friends that she drives a 911! It will be interesting to see what she says when we "get the call" that our 992 allocation has come up.
This thread is supposed to be about Nick Murray's video comparison of the 992 S and GTS. I like Nick's video content a lot and think he is very knowledgeable about Porsche but I don't always or even often agree with him. I want to scream every time he says "deviated stitching". F*ck "deviant" stitching! I pay more attention to what William and Albert say than to Nick.
I didn't make it clear that the "$700K car budget" was for now and not annual. Just because she's OK with me spending a buttload of money doesn't mean that I'm going to. And I don't want to. I was surprised when she came up with that figure and suspected that she was trying to cheer me up due to how COVID has impacted us - hospitalizations, deaths and lingering illness among family and friends. But I'm just not that into cars anymore. Maybe it's age - I'll soon be 73. I had five/six cars at a time when younger but now I can barely tolerate dealing with two. I can appreciate cars without owning them. If I want a "fix" of exotic cars, I'll walk across the cul-de-sac to a neighbor's house and admire his Maserati collection while drinking his expensive wine. He appreciates the company.
My wife and I have always asked each other's permission before purchasing almost anything. We're a team. I asked my wife if it was OK to purchase a new $150 torque wrench when I bought the new Cayenne in August since my 50 year old torque wrench was not suitable for tightening Porsche lug nuts to 118 ft lbs. I asked her if it was OK to buy a $50 Porsche first aid kit from Suncoast last week. We're actually quite frugal. My wife has never got over a childhood in which her babysitting income went to purchase food which she never got enough of due to older brothers. I can't forget that there was a time when I couldn't find work and was down to my last $10. I still sometime have to assure my wife that it's OK for her to buy what she wants and that we can afford our favorite restaurants whenever we want.
I think my wife would enjoy a Carrara 4 but she's wavering on following through. Her main concern is that she would damage it or at a minimum trash its wheels on curbs. I've been reminding her that the 911 is smaller than her Prius wagon, that a 911 would have more parking aids, that she has a handicapped parking permit that usually allows parking in oversize spaces and that cars can be fixed if damaged. Although she won't admit it, it's obvious that she is "into" luxury car brands for whatever prestige she associates with them. I can visualize her telling friends that she drives a 911! It will be interesting to see what she says when we "get the call" that our 992 allocation has come up.
This thread is supposed to be about Nick Murray's video comparison of the 992 S and GTS. I like Nick's video content a lot and think he is very knowledgeable about Porsche but I don't always or even often agree with him. I want to scream every time he says "deviated stitching". F*ck "deviant" stitching! I pay more attention to what William and Albert say than to Nick.
I wish I had more neighbors and friends around me like you. Drive on brother, Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays and a safe and healthy 2023 to you and your wife
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minn19 (12-24-2022),
Smirnoff67 (12-24-2022)
12-24-2022, 09:47 PM
#230
Rennlist Member
I'm not in the market for a 911 currently.
But if I was, and based on my current cars that I own, I think I would spec a T with nothing but MT, LWB and PCCBs (if/when available).
It would be my weekend car that I would toss around and couldn't care if it got dinged, whacked or whatever. Run it to the ground and get rid of it after the OEM warranty expires.
I think this is what people are getting at when they say they would pick a Base over a GTS or whatever, and money has nothing to do with it.
It's just use case.
A 175k MSRP 911 has no appeal for me. As the QPR just isn't there for me.
But if I was, and based on my current cars that I own, I think I would spec a T with nothing but MT, LWB and PCCBs (if/when available).
It would be my weekend car that I would toss around and couldn't care if it got dinged, whacked or whatever. Run it to the ground and get rid of it after the OEM warranty expires.
I think this is what people are getting at when they say they would pick a Base over a GTS or whatever, and money has nothing to do with it.
It's just use case.
A 175k MSRP 911 has no appeal for me. As the QPR just isn't there for me.
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johny221 (12-24-2022)
12-25-2022, 01:23 AM
#231
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
12-25-2022, 11:00 AM
#233
Burning Brakes
This is an excellent post and from what I am assuming a true car guy that is not out to impress the status craving, badge worshipping, country club crowd looking to validate themselves.
The GTS is in most cases ridiculously overpriced and still quite stiff even at retail without the dealer rear end job.
The GTS is in most cases ridiculously overpriced and still quite stiff even at retail without the dealer rear end job.
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12-25-2022, 11:41 AM
#234
Burning Brakes
I am firmly in the S corner, however, I do recognize that residual value is based on the derivative price, before the options. So, GTS would have more options baked into the price and will have higher residual for seemingly similar car. Except, I am buying for my personal motoring pleasure, not for resale, so back to 911 S. 🤓
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ron4sc (12-25-2022)
12-25-2022, 11:44 AM
#235
Three Wheelin'
This is an excellent post and from what I am assuming a true car guy that is not out to impress the status craving, badge worshipping, country club crowd looking to validate themselves.
The GTS is in most cases ridiculously overpriced and still quite stiff even at retail without the dealer rear end job.
The GTS is in most cases ridiculously overpriced and still quite stiff even at retail without the dealer rear end job.
I tend to agree with you about getting more of the content that many of us enjoy with the GTS but would not pay the excessive gouge that some seem to be comfortable with and that has absolutely nothing to do with who can afford what which seems to be a primary concern for some in this thread.
I would personally prefer the GTS but understand that the S is really the sweet spot for most at this time.
I would personally prefer the GTS but understand that the S is really the sweet spot for most at this time.
For some reason, Porsche USA decided to charge a greater premium for the GTS over the -S than is the case in most other markets. In the US, the GTS is priced 15.9% above the -S (base MSRP), wheres in Canada it is only 12.1% more (13.5% in Germany to state another example). Further, if you option an -S with all the options that are standard in the GTS (S-PASM, , PSE, Sport-Chrono, upgraded wheels, Sport Design package, Sport Seats+, ED taillight, PDSL+ headlights, GT steering wheel), they both end up essentially at the same price point in Canada and you get the extra GTS features such as the increased power, sportier suspension and bigger brakes for "free" plus the additional GTS optional possibilities (lightweight package, exclusive interiors). However, in the USA, one is left with a ~$4k premium after adding all these features to an -S. Now, if the extra power, sportier suspension, bigger brakes and additional option possibilities are worth ~4k for a US buyer, that entirely up to them. Furthermore, ADM are illegal where I live and are not a reality in many parts of the word.
Last edited by CanAutM3; 12-25-2022 at 11:53 AM.
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minn19 (12-25-2022)
12-25-2022, 12:21 PM
#236
Burning Brakes
This highly depends where one lives.
For some reason, Porsche USA decided to charge a greater premium for the GTS over the -S than is the case in most other markets. In the US, the GTS is priced 15.9% above the -S (base MSRP), wheres in Canada it is only 12.1% more (13.5% in Germany to state another example). Further, if you option an -S with all the options that are standard in the GTS (S-PASM, , PSE, Sport-Chrono, upgraded wheels, Sport Design package, Sport Seats+, ED taillight, PDSL+ headlights, GT steering wheel), they both end up essentially at the same price point in Canada and you get the extra GTS features such as the increased power, sportier suspension and bigger brakes for "free" plus the additional GTS optional possibilities (lightweight package, exclusive interiors). However, in the USA, one is left with a ~$4k premium after adding all these features to an -S. Now, if the extra power, sportier suspension, bigger brakes and additional option possibilities are worth ~4k for a US buyer, that entirely up to them. Furthermore, ADM are illegal where I live and are not a reality in many parts of the word.
For some reason, Porsche USA decided to charge a greater premium for the GTS over the -S than is the case in most other markets. In the US, the GTS is priced 15.9% above the -S (base MSRP), wheres in Canada it is only 12.1% more (13.5% in Germany to state another example). Further, if you option an -S with all the options that are standard in the GTS (S-PASM, , PSE, Sport-Chrono, upgraded wheels, Sport Design package, Sport Seats+, ED taillight, PDSL+ headlights, GT steering wheel), they both end up essentially at the same price point in Canada and you get the extra GTS features such as the increased power, sportier suspension and bigger brakes for "free" plus the additional GTS optional possibilities (lightweight package, exclusive interiors). However, in the USA, one is left with a ~$4k premium after adding all these features to an -S. Now, if the extra power, sportier suspension, bigger brakes and additional option possibilities are worth ~4k for a US buyer, that entirely up to them. Furthermore, ADM are illegal where I live and are not a reality in many parts of the word.
Precisely my perspective. About 3K-4K more gets you "better" brakes, suspension and badge along with the added possibility of enhanced trade-in/re-sale value. I don't purchase based on a resale strategy, but it isn't a bad thing. In the end, they are both fantastic models and no owner of either would be unhappy or miss the other. Had a .2 S before the GTS I have on order now and was for want of nothing other than something new.
12-25-2022, 12:24 PM
#237
Rennlist Member
This highly depends where one lives.
For some reason, Porsche USA decided to charge a greater premium for the GTS over the -S than is the case in most other markets. In the US, the GTS is priced 15.9% above the -S (base MSRP), wheres in Canada it is only 12.1% more (13.5% in Germany to state another example). Further, if you option an -S with all the options that are standard in the GTS (S-PASM, , PSE, Sport-Chrono, upgraded wheels, Sport Design package, Sport Seats+, ED taillight, PDSL+ headlights, GT steering wheel), they both end up essentially at the same price point in Canada and you get the extra GTS features such as the increased power, sportier suspension and bigger brakes for "free" plus the additional GTS optional possibilities (lightweight package, exclusive interiors). However, in the USA, one is left with a ~$4k premium after adding all these features to an -S. Now, if the extra power, sportier suspension, bigger brakes and additional option possibilities are worth ~4k for a US buyer, that entirely up to them. Furthermore, ADM are illegal where I live and are not a reality in many parts of the word.
For some reason, Porsche USA decided to charge a greater premium for the GTS over the -S than is the case in most other markets. In the US, the GTS is priced 15.9% above the -S (base MSRP), wheres in Canada it is only 12.1% more (13.5% in Germany to state another example). Further, if you option an -S with all the options that are standard in the GTS (S-PASM, , PSE, Sport-Chrono, upgraded wheels, Sport Design package, Sport Seats+, ED taillight, PDSL+ headlights, GT steering wheel), they both end up essentially at the same price point in Canada and you get the extra GTS features such as the increased power, sportier suspension and bigger brakes for "free" plus the additional GTS optional possibilities (lightweight package, exclusive interiors). However, in the USA, one is left with a ~$4k premium after adding all these features to an -S. Now, if the extra power, sportier suspension, bigger brakes and additional option possibilities are worth ~4k for a US buyer, that entirely up to them. Furthermore, ADM are illegal where I live and are not a reality in many parts of the word.
So yah, 4k difference between similar S/GTS builds for me it is a no brainer to get a GTS (without CL wheels), 20k ish etc it was a no brainer for me the other way. Everyone is also obviously different on their value calculations.
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pkalhan (12-25-2022)
12-25-2022, 01:46 PM
#238
Three Wheelin'
12-25-2022, 03:55 PM
#239
Precisely my perspective. About 3K-4K more gets you "better" brakes, suspension and badge along with the added possibility of enhanced trade-in/re-sale value. I don't purchase based on a resale strategy, but it isn't a bad thing. In the end, they are both fantastic models and no owner of either would be unhappy or miss the other. Had a .2 S before the GTS I have on order now and was for want of nothing other than something new.