992.2 Carrera spotted testing
02-06-2022, 01:09 PM
#106
Burning Brakes
Not to worry though. Your FI 3.0 will undoubtedly serve you with zero issues as it sits at the bottom of what Porsche considers to be their true high performance vehicles and one of the least involving sports car driving experiences Porsche has to offer.
This is a sincere post. I don't get it. Educate me. I've had my fair share of vehicles and I don't understand. Different does not mean bad to me, or less engaging. My S rides tight, handles great, the quickness of the pdk is phenomenal. It is fast, too fast for me, I will never exploit it to it's fullest potential. My heart races when I drive it like a holligan as evidenced by apple watch readings lol. It scares the **** out of my wife and children and people gawk over it everywhere it goes. The only thing I can find fault in this car is the exhaust note and Db level. Does it boil down to that? if I can somehow fake a NA GT3 scream in cabin would you be fooled into thinking it is more of a car? With a tune and some Cup 2's it would be giving any GT3 out there a run for their money and likely beat prior generations. Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the tubo cars of prior generations the most sought after and collectable, thinking G Body and air cooled generations. Why are those turbos good and 992 turbos bad? There's a lot I don't understand going on here. To me, an awesome car is an awesome car. It doesn't need to mimick another awsome car to be awsome in it's own right. Approch each experince with an open mind, after all, if you look for what's wrong and what a car isn't ...you will certainly find it.
This is a sincere post. I don't get it. Educate me. I've had my fair share of vehicles and I don't understand. Different does not mean bad to me, or less engaging. My S rides tight, handles great, the quickness of the pdk is phenomenal. It is fast, too fast for me, I will never exploit it to it's fullest potential. My heart races when I drive it like a holligan as evidenced by apple watch readings lol. It scares the **** out of my wife and children and people gawk over it everywhere it goes. The only thing I can find fault in this car is the exhaust note and Db level. Does it boil down to that? if I can somehow fake a NA GT3 scream in cabin would you be fooled into thinking it is more of a car? With a tune and some Cup 2's it would be giving any GT3 out there a run for their money and likely beat prior generations. Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the tubo cars of prior generations the most sought after and collectable, thinking G Body and air cooled generations. Why are those turbos good and 992 turbos bad? There's a lot I don't understand going on here. To me, an awesome car is an awesome car. It doesn't need to mimick another awsome car to be awsome in it's own right. Approch each experince with an open mind, after all, if you look for what's wrong and what a car isn't ...you will certainly find it.
SS
02-06-2022, 01:26 PM
#107
Racer
Delete
Last edited by ngamountains; 02-06-2022 at 01:28 PM.
02-06-2022, 03:33 PM
#108
Speculating about a speculated car with a speculated power plant. To some degree entertaining to another looking just to fight boredom until my 992 arrives. 😎
02-06-2022, 10:00 PM
#109
Wow, I’m not sure how to respond to your opinion-laced tirade…but it did make me laugh. Glad to see you appointed yourself the GT spokesman. Is that just for NA, or world-wide? 😎 I’m speechless at the arrogance. Truly.
But back to your rant…why do I care, and what relevance does it have for you to tell me you have a garage full of “other toys to keep you busy” if your 4.0 liter GT4 breaks down? WTF was that about? You seem to be saying - who cares if the engine needed to be replaced, or has other issues (as mentioned several posts up)_..since all GT owners have other cars to keep them busy. Is this now a who has more toys discussion? I have a Cessna 172 (see avatar) in a hangar 20 miles from my house, a 32’ SeaRay 50 yards away at my dock, and a M4 and Lexus RX in my garage to keep me busy if something should happen to my 992S….but who the F*ck cares, and WTF does any of that have to do with the reliability issues of the 4.0 liter engines being discussed? 😱
As for what “car you will take over…blah, blah”….do you think I care what you think, or prefer? Really? If I need Porsche technical advice, I seek the advice of my two grad school buddies that regularly track their non-street legal GT3 or GT3 RS. Coincidentally, both recommended that I “start” with with the 992 or 992 S (both are a LOT of fun to drive, and more suited as a daily driver than the GT3), and if I start tracking regularly, a big if, to maybe consider getting a track-only Porsche, that is kept off-site and trailered to the track when needed. Personally, I like their suggestion, but a long way off from making this commitment. So, spare me your rant, and supposed GT expertise, “bro”.
But back to your rant…why do I care, and what relevance does it have for you to tell me you have a garage full of “other toys to keep you busy” if your 4.0 liter GT4 breaks down? WTF was that about? You seem to be saying - who cares if the engine needed to be replaced, or has other issues (as mentioned several posts up)_..since all GT owners have other cars to keep them busy. Is this now a who has more toys discussion? I have a Cessna 172 (see avatar) in a hangar 20 miles from my house, a 32’ SeaRay 50 yards away at my dock, and a M4 and Lexus RX in my garage to keep me busy if something should happen to my 992S….but who the F*ck cares, and WTF does any of that have to do with the reliability issues of the 4.0 liter engines being discussed? 😱
As for what “car you will take over…blah, blah”….do you think I care what you think, or prefer? Really? If I need Porsche technical advice, I seek the advice of my two grad school buddies that regularly track their non-street legal GT3 or GT3 RS. Coincidentally, both recommended that I “start” with with the 992 or 992 S (both are a LOT of fun to drive, and more suited as a daily driver than the GT3), and if I start tracking regularly, a big if, to maybe consider getting a track-only Porsche, that is kept off-site and trailered to the track when needed. Personally, I like their suggestion, but a long way off from making this commitment. So, spare me your rant, and supposed GT expertise, “bro”.
02-06-2022, 11:16 PM
#110
Rennlist Member
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02-06-2022, 11:24 PM
#112
Rennlist Member
Well this thread took a turn! I have a 4.0L GTS and lived through the engine replacement. It was not fun, but a bad batch of parts doens’t equate to a reliability issue in my mind. But I did come out the other end with an 8 year warranty and $5k in my pocket - so there’s that. A handful had bad oil pump failures of some kind as well, and gear grind has been reported back to the 981 AFAIK. Anyway, I enjoy it and would love to drive a 911 with that engine.
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westcoastj (02-11-2022)
02-06-2022, 11:43 PM
#113
Well this thread took a turn! I have a 4.0L GTS and lived through the engine replacement. It was not fun, but a bad batch of parts doens’t equate to a reliability issue in my mind. But I did come out the other end with an 8 year warranty and $5k in my pocket - so there’s that. A handful had bad oil pump failures of some kind as well, and gear grind has been reported back to the 981 AFAIK. Anyway, I enjoy it and would love to drive a 911 with that engine.
Yeah, I read a number of Rennlist posts on this issue from March 2021. It was good to read that Porsche did right by those that were impacted. Sounds like you were made whole, and then some.
Personally, I prefer a turbo powered car because of the ease to tweak the power/torque curves…for minimal cost. It does nothing to change the sound to be as visceral as a NA engine, but it will bring new life to an aging car, while offering higher HP/weight ratio. I’ve done that with two of my cars, and appreciate the tuning flexibilities that turbos offer.
02-07-2022, 08:04 AM
#114
The T is a Carrera. I'd take the Base Carrera 3.0l turbocharged engine over that 4.0 GT4 engine. Compared to that NA engine, the turbocharged engine makes more torque everywhere and more horsepower until the top of the rev range. The difference in experience is more dramatic than the peak numbers would suggest. Why give that up for a rev limiter that's only 500RPM higher?
They dropped the NA 6cyl in the 718, because the 4cyl they designed for the Chinese market just didn't move 718s in the US.
Porsche has no trouble selling every 992 that they can build. Why would they want to make a slow one? What's the business case?
They dropped the NA 6cyl in the 718, because the 4cyl they designed for the Chinese market just didn't move 718s in the US.
Porsche has no trouble selling every 992 that they can build. Why would they want to make a slow one? What's the business case?
The same reason the gt3 is more desirable than a turbo, even though a gt3 is “ slower “
02-07-2022, 08:34 AM
#115
This thread has followed the normal pattern when new models come out or existing models are to be face lifted in that owners of recent cars all prefer what they have rather than what is to come out. We have all done it as it is a self defence mechanism.
As for the n/a versus turbo debate it’s the same as the PDK versus manual debate. Nothing is better or worse, it’s just what people want and Porsche tries it’s best with the plethora of 911 variants to cover all bases.
In Europe we already have GPFs and by and large they have ruined the sound of cars. Even the 718 4.0 GTS I test drove was disappointing noise compared wise with pre GPF bigger engined cars. For those of you in North America who can still buy a 911 without a GPF then make sure you get one whilst you can. Euro 7 is designed to remove all the benefits of an ICE car so that people give in and go BEV for all their cars. That’s why I will put up with a Euro 6 911 with the low UK allocations determining for me whether I get a .1 or .2.
As for the n/a versus turbo debate it’s the same as the PDK versus manual debate. Nothing is better or worse, it’s just what people want and Porsche tries it’s best with the plethora of 911 variants to cover all bases.
In Europe we already have GPFs and by and large they have ruined the sound of cars. Even the 718 4.0 GTS I test drove was disappointing noise compared wise with pre GPF bigger engined cars. For those of you in North America who can still buy a 911 without a GPF then make sure you get one whilst you can. Euro 7 is designed to remove all the benefits of an ICE car so that people give in and go BEV for all their cars. That’s why I will put up with a Euro 6 911 with the low UK allocations determining for me whether I get a .1 or .2.
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02-07-2022, 09:59 AM
#116
I think the best way to measure “desirability” is through sales figures (since the Porsche demographics would suggest most Porsche 911 buyers, can buy any model they want). So, to put an actual data point on this claim …by chance, do you have a link to the breakdown of sales numbers for the various 911 models? I’ve looked, and can’t find one. Thx. Since only 10K 911’s (all models) were sold in all of 2021, we’re really not talking about a a lot of cars here, but based on the models that I see come through my local dealership, I’d bet the base Carrera and S models sell the most…by a wide margin.
Further, I think most Porsche owners do NOT track their cars. The GT3 is viewed by many as a track-centric car, with harsh suspension, precise steering, etc, and as such, many buyers would not want/need for their “daily driver”. I, for one, had always been turned off by the fixed rear wing on the GT3, and would never have considered the GT3 until Porsche recently introduced the Touring GT3…and i bet that’s why? On the track, the fixed wing makes sense, but on the street, IMO, I think it looks out of place, and sort of “boy racer”.
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 02-07-2022 at 11:36 AM.
02-08-2022, 03:19 AM
#117
Instructor
”Take this information with a grain of salt but we are starting to hear rumors about a version of Porsche’s 4.0-liter flat-six motor with a smaller displacement that could replace the current 3.0-liter twin-turbo unit.”
https://www.motor1.com/news/565957/p...acelift-spied/
https://www.motor1.com/news/565957/p...acelift-spied/
Last edited by The Pinkoboe; 02-08-2022 at 03:25 AM.
02-08-2022, 07:34 AM
#118
As someone who comes here with far more questions than answers due to lack of engineering expertise, I pose a few questions related to this last "scoop" update.
While I guess anything is possible, is it likely that any of these changes would be ready for a 2023 model? Does P move that fast? (thinking of the changeovers usually announced in early April for coming year builds that begin end of August)
And related to the wholesale speculative move (back if you will) to a NA car from which the 992 would be based moving forward, could it be easier to present/launch the car in hybrid version with a NA engine than a hybrid/Turbo? Is there a difference in performance or maybe experience they are trying to create by using a NA car when mated to electric? With the power and economy improvements of hybrid, maybe they dont need the turbo and can regain some of the enjoyment of a NA cars as a tradeoff for you purists?
Maybe this was solved for early on in the thread but I got lost in the direction it took with all the GT talk, 4 engine replacement, etc. as Im not up to speed in those storylines. thanks
While I guess anything is possible, is it likely that any of these changes would be ready for a 2023 model? Does P move that fast? (thinking of the changeovers usually announced in early April for coming year builds that begin end of August)
And related to the wholesale speculative move (back if you will) to a NA car from which the 992 would be based moving forward, could it be easier to present/launch the car in hybrid version with a NA engine than a hybrid/Turbo? Is there a difference in performance or maybe experience they are trying to create by using a NA car when mated to electric? With the power and economy improvements of hybrid, maybe they dont need the turbo and can regain some of the enjoyment of a NA cars as a tradeoff for you purists?
Maybe this was solved for early on in the thread but I got lost in the direction it took with all the GT talk, 4 engine replacement, etc. as Im not up to speed in those storylines. thanks
02-08-2022, 09:01 AM
#119
Rennlist Member
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02-08-2022, 09:08 AM
#120
By “turbo”, are you referring to the >$200K turbo.,,or all turbo 911’s? I wish Porsche would make a distinction?
I think the best way to measure “desirability” is through sales figures (since the Porsche demographics would suggest most Porsche 911 buyers, can buy any model they want). So, to put an actual data point on this claim …by chance, do you have a link to the breakdown of sales numbers for the various 911 models? I’ve looked, and can’t find one. Thx. Since only 10K 911’s (all models) were sold in all of 2021, we’re really not talking about a a lot of cars here, but based on the models that I see come through my local dealership, I’d bet the base Carrera and S models sell the most…by a wide margin.
Further, I think most Porsche owners do NOT track their cars. The GT3 is viewed by many as a track-centric car, with harsh suspension, precise steering, etc, and as such, many buyers would not want/need for their “daily driver”. I, for one, had always been turned off by the fixed rear wing on the GT3, and would never have considered the GT3 until Porsche recently introduced the Touring GT3…and i bet that’s why? On the track, the fixed wing makes sense, but on the street, IMO, I think it looks out of place, and sort of “boy racer”.
I think the best way to measure “desirability” is through sales figures (since the Porsche demographics would suggest most Porsche 911 buyers, can buy any model they want). So, to put an actual data point on this claim …by chance, do you have a link to the breakdown of sales numbers for the various 911 models? I’ve looked, and can’t find one. Thx. Since only 10K 911’s (all models) were sold in all of 2021, we’re really not talking about a a lot of cars here, but based on the models that I see come through my local dealership, I’d bet the base Carrera and S models sell the most…by a wide margin.
Further, I think most Porsche owners do NOT track their cars. The GT3 is viewed by many as a track-centric car, with harsh suspension, precise steering, etc, and as such, many buyers would not want/need for their “daily driver”. I, for one, had always been turned off by the fixed rear wing on the GT3, and would never have considered the GT3 until Porsche recently introduced the Touring GT3…and i bet that’s why? On the track, the fixed wing makes sense, but on the street, IMO, I think it looks out of place, and sort of “boy racer”.