CodyBigdog

I’m sorry, but I don’t speak Canadian. 😳 But thanks for playing.

Fcassells

Gosh dang it, and I tried to use small words, sorry to confuse you, sorry, did I mention I’m sorry ?

CodyBigdog

Love the “gosh dang”….

Yes, that’s how we speak down here in the South,.😎

22992

991.2 and 992 were/are both hot sellers. I feel like the NA or die crowd are vocal but small. Most people must enjoy both experiences or they would buy something else. Personally I enjoy NA engines, but certainly do not need one. I enjoy the turbos just the same.

aggie57

There's a lot of truth in this statement. We do get confused and forget that not all NA engines are like a GT3.

phow

Weren’t you just criticizing me for my certainty?

Anyway, it really doesn’t matter to me what Porsche does with the Carrera line as I haven’t owned one since the 991.1. My last 4 911’s have all been GT cars and my next will be the 992 GT3 this summer.

However, with how harsh the 992 GT3 has become (it’s definitely more RS than GT3 now), part of me would love to see a non-turbo 911 variant that isn’t a GT car come to market. And if you don’t think there would be a line around the block for such a car (e.g. NA Carrera T), you are mistaken.

Personally I have nothing against electrification. I’ve been hoping the GT3 would go hybrid using similar tech as the 918 so they don’t have to compromise suspension so much in order to get the desired ring times.

I just don’t see it happening this decade. There are 8 years until 2030. We still have ~2 more years of 992.1 and than 3-4 years of 992.2. The Carrera is already plenty fast and competitive. If Porsche is meeting emissions standards with their current line of turbo and NA motors, I see no reason that they will add the expense and weight to the 911 until they are absolutely forced to do so.

Everything I have heard and read from fairly reliable sources has given me the impression that Porsche wants the 718 to be their electric sports car and they want to allow the 911 range to remains ICE. For how long that will last is anyone’s guess but I think the predictions in the source I cited are accurate.

Feel free to cite any of your own sources to the contrary.

Druid1

Why do you think a NA 4.0 engine in a 992 would be less than a 992 Base Carrera? The GT4 engine has more HP but slightly slower 0-60 time and the GT4 RS engine is faster to 0-60. If they add a 4.0 to the 992, I would guess they tweak it to be close to a 992 GTS in HP, but it will not beat a 992 GTS in 0-60 time. That would be fine by me and I think there will be plenty of takers for a 992 4.0.

CodyBigdog

Yes, but the difference is, you said “100% of 911’s would only be ICE for the next decade”. I said, I am certain that a hybrid variant of the 911 would be introduced within 5 years, and certainly, by this decade. See the difference? Porsche has a history of offering variants in it’s popular models, and a hybrid will be such a variant. From what I have read, the major deterrent to the hybridization of the 911, right now, is not technology, or the purists that only want ICE, but space, Something will have to give to make room for the batteries….

If I was to buy another 992 right now, it would be a Turbo S. I just don’t see much difference between the S and the GT, to justify the GT’s $12-15K price jump. While the GT3 is a different animal. But since I only occasionally go to the track, much of the benefits of the GT3 would be lost on the street. That said, I suspect that by the time I am ready to replace my 992 S, the 911 lineup will look different from what it does right now? Ideally, for me, Porsche hybridizes the Turbo S to make it an unbeatable car. A car that will have no equal - at least in a straight line. If/when that happens, I will be at my dealership leaving a deposit.

As far as your last comment about the line “around the block”….LOL, that pretty much was the case most of the year, with their current lineup of cars….selling everything they had, at a premium. Porsche does a remarkable job with their image, and getting customers lined up to pay anything for a car that should be 25% less expensive.



https://christophorus.porsche.com/en...t-reimold.html

As far as Porsche meeting current emission standards…well, the key word here is “current:”. I have no knowledge of German/EU emission requirements in the coming years?

Offering a hybrid 911, as just one of several other variant 911 models, is still an ICE powered car, and allows the remaining 911 models to be only ICE powered. The “electrification” of cars is here, now…and Porsche knows that. Then, of course, when I go to various PCA events and i look around the lot of Porsche owners, I see a lot of white haired men. Age and wealth does have it’s perks…but the next generation of Porsche buyers, I suspect, will not be like today’s Porsche buyers, and will want hybrid/ev options. One of my neighbors is a good example. He’s in his mid-30’s as best I would guess, and earlier this year he sold his two Porsche (one a 911/991.x) and opted to replace them with 2 Tesla’s…a SUV for his family, and the Plaid for him (a car faster than even the Turbo S). I’m not in the car business, but I am pretty aware of the Porsche demographics, and without a doubt, it;’s an older crowd.


Just the words from the Porsche CEO. That’s all I need to quote. Although CEO’s, like politicians, will mislead to manipulate the public. Elon Musk is a perfect example of that.

icanthelpit

fleet emission mandates (Euro)

CodyBigdog

Wait…Why would they tweak the hp to be “close to the 992 GTS”? Then it is a competitor to the GTS, which, by the way at only 25hp more, is only marginally faster than the current 992 S (ie, 2.8 sec versus 2.9sec..although a simple software tune/HP bump on the S would change that). 25HP bump is nothing. To me, this would seem to crowd the lineup, unless you are implying they would drop the current turbo 992 GTS? The S is going nowhere. So, if the speculation is correct, for 2023 the 992.2 lineup might look like this?? : 992 (base), 992S, 992GTS, 992 4L, 992GT3, 992T and 992TS. Lot of variants for such a niche market. Hey, we’re not talking SUV’s or trucks, which everybody in NA seem to want.

Recent history seemed to indicate that Porsche had no problems selling every 911 they made in 2020 and 2021..and maybe 2022. They were maxed out, or nearly maxed out. Seems to me that something would have to give to accommodate the 4.0L NA 992.2?

detansinn

If you are looking at peak HP and torque numbers, you’re doing it wrong. It’s the area under those curves. For example, a Carrera S makes more torque starting at 2500RPM than a GT3 ever makes. A Carrera S also makes horsepower than a GT3 motor until around 5500RPM and a GTS stays pace with the GT3 even higher in the rev range. When you are driving a car on the street, you’re going to feel that dramatic difference in the powerband and delivery. SPOILER: For most of the conditions that you encounter on the street, a 992 Carrera/S/GTS is going to feel faster than a GT3. Yes, even a Base Carrera engine is downright stout compared to that 718 GT4 engine.

Getting a turbocharged engine to make more power isn’t a heavy lift. You just crank up the boost (and make sure that you’re getting enough fuel in there too). The difference between a Carrera S and GTS is the factory tune.

If you want more power out of an NA engine, that’s considerably more complicated. This is why even between the 991.2 and 992 GT3, differences in peak power are extremely modest. With an NA engine, improvements are much more challenging and expensive. The current GT3 engine already has one of the highest HP outputs per liter of any naturally aspirated emissions legal factory engine. How does it get there? It revs to 9K RPM.

Getting that 718 GT4 engine to make GTS levels of power would be a huge lift and it’s hard to imagine Porsche making that investment in the twilight of the internal combustion engine, especially when they already have such an engine in the GT3.

CodyBigdog

I will add to what I said before…I suspect the real reason why some in the press (and maybe consumers) like the 4.0L is the visceral sensation, the sound one gets taking it up to it’s 9,000 RPM redline. Same reason the “purists” prefer manual tranny….it provides feedback to the driver.

I get that.

But, as you said, straight line performance improvements, on the street, aren’t there…and in fact, in some situations, are worse. Turbo cars are very easy and relatively inexpensive to tune to get significant HP bumps. I’ve done two in my lifetime, and had no issues with reliability. While NA engines are far more difficult and expensive to tune….for only modest HP bumps.

That said, I can see why all manufacturers prefer turbo engines, as that allows them a much easier and cheaper path to meet consumer demands for greater HP with each generation of car….without having to invest huge amounts of capital to develop higher HP NA engines. With the hybridization/electrification of cars, any manufacturer that would invest mega dollars, today, for a new generation of NA engines, would be foolish to undertake such an endeavor.

SBAD

Well, that’s a sigh of relief…I don’t see any design cues that I prefer to my ‘21 CS2. In fact, I find the front radiator treatment ugly in terms of shape and the busy nature of the two-way flaps. I think the driving lights are just a ruse.

https://www.motor1.com/news/564934/p...-facelift-spy/

retrojay2345

You say that now until the car comes out. Very rarely does anyone think a refresh is worse than the original.

ipse dixit

More speculation ...

https://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/911/20...rototype-spied