992 Carrera T Club
11-03-2023, 04:35 PM
If the date holds, HoHoHo
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11-03-2023, 04:49 PM
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Either way, whether you mis-quote or just make stuff up, you are quite a reach with your 'value' argument. You happened to pick the most marked up, premium performance version that BMW sells. Cherry picking to make your case.
Porsche is maybe not the worst - but definitely from a value perspective it is near the bottom. I have a hard time thinking up something with similar performance that costs more. Porsche charges a huge premium and we all know it. $131K in 2023 for a carrera T with 370hp (or slightly more) and 3254 lbs --- vs $63K for an F80 M3 in 2018 with 444hp (also slightly more) and 3550 lbs. And for today's cars that offer similar performance, look at the vette, the camaro ZL1 (discontinued?), the Mustang dark horse. They all perform similarly or some even better. Is the cheapness and quality you claim of others worth 40/50/60k more? My M3 has 4 doors, can comfortably seat 4, and has a pretty big boot. And it has decent performance with a manual trans. That's what I call solid value. Come one now. Please put down your pitcher of porsche kool aide and take off the porsche design sunglasses.
Porsche is maybe not the worst - but definitely from a value perspective it is near the bottom. I have a hard time thinking up something with similar performance that costs more. Porsche charges a huge premium and we all know it. $131K in 2023 for a carrera T with 370hp (or slightly more) and 3254 lbs --- vs $63K for an F80 M3 in 2018 with 444hp (also slightly more) and 3550 lbs. And for today's cars that offer similar performance, look at the vette, the camaro ZL1 (discontinued?), the Mustang dark horse. They all perform similarly or some even better. Is the cheapness and quality you claim of others worth 40/50/60k more? My M3 has 4 doors, can comfortably seat 4, and has a pretty big boot. And it has decent performance with a manual trans. That's what I call solid value. Come one now. Please put down your pitcher of porsche kool aide and take off the porsche design sunglasses.
One I did not cherry-pick the most expensive car, I just looked up Nurimburg Times, and it was close to 992 Cars,
Second, no BMW is going for their MSRP price, addendums, add-ons, options, you name it, like someone said already many many BMWs will go for 20k over stated MSRP.
You have $63,195 for an M2 at 3,814 pounds with 20k of options and everything it's an 83k car. Id rather have a flat six Cayman or a 911 T, for the less weight, the better handling.
Your BMW is not a sports car its a luxury car trying to be sporty.
I can fit 4 airplane carryons in my car two in the front, two behind me, a 28 Qart cooler and, 3 soft bags (backpacks), and another passenger in my T, if you want to talk about space, I think that is more than enough.
The other cars you mention sure they can beat a Porsche in a straight line, but I would love to see Corvets, mustangs, and Cameros, keeping up with Porsches on the track.
Those types of cars are literally only for going drag racing that is where they came from not for racing around a track, excluding the Corvette nowadays
I might have a pitcher of Porche Kool-Aid, but look at the facts, no BMW drives as solid as a 911. They are top-heavy, they have no feeling in the steering wheel. They have shocks made for the road, and comfort, not the track. I literally drove all the Competition BMWs on Circut de Americas for multiple laps, the feeling was not as good as a GT3rs, GT3, GTS, S, T, 2002 Boxster. I have driven all these extensively on a track. the BMW does not preform in the same category as any of these for handling.
Last edited by Vernin; 11-03-2023 at 04:58 PM.
11-03-2023, 04:53 PM
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Hello 911T Club.
I am new to Rennlist. I am not new to Porsche having had a 2.4 S and a 964 R/S in the past.
After years of Ferraris, I have decided to jump back in. Why? Well I test drove a manual T and it felt 100% 911 DNA.
Plus my wife, who has never driven my F12 took the T demo out for a spin and came back smiling.
So done deal.
Delivery date was originally late 2024 but has come forward to March.
Paint to sample Mint Green
I am new to Rennlist. I am not new to Porsche having had a 2.4 S and a 964 R/S in the past.
After years of Ferraris, I have decided to jump back in. Why? Well I test drove a manual T and it felt 100% 911 DNA.
Plus my wife, who has never driven my F12 took the T demo out for a spin and came back smiling.
So done deal.
Delivery date was originally late 2024 but has come forward to March.
Paint to sample Mint Green
That mint green will look beautiful I hope you send pictures when it delivers!
Ferraris are pretty sweet and they hold up against time (I know a guy with a 2012 Ferarri California and it still looks like its only 3 years old!)
But we are glad to see you getting into the Porsche 911 again, I am very positive you will really really love the T!
11-03-2023, 04:59 PM
Three Wheelin'
Has anyone cross shopped a Corvette Z06 with the T? I've seen many comparisons to GT3's, GT3 RS's, etc. But on an equivalent $ value the T and the Z are on par. I am debating this myself. My biggest issue is the lack of a manual, of course. And, admittedly, a totally different experience other than both are fun toys.
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11-03-2023, 05:02 PM
Burning Brakes
Can you get a Z06 with less than $100k markup?
At MSRP the Z06 is a really appealing package, but at $200k not-so-much.
The lack of a manual, and more importantly a backseat, was enough to kill it for me.
At MSRP the Z06 is a really appealing package, but at $200k not-so-much.
The lack of a manual, and more importantly a backseat, was enough to kill it for me.
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Vernin (11-03-2023)
11-03-2023, 05:02 PM
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Quesiton for the UK T owners
Did any of you get a printed owners manual with the car? I've checked the glovebox and have nothing, I know I can download the digitial one but it's nice to have the printed copy in the car
Did any of you get a printed owners manual with the car? I've checked the glovebox and have nothing, I know I can download the digitial one but it's nice to have the printed copy in the car
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11-03-2023, 05:03 PM
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Has anyone cross shopped a Corvette Z06 with the T? I've seen many comparisons to GT3's, GT3 RS's, etc. But on an equivalent $ value the T and the Z are on par. I am debating this myself. My biggest issue is the lack of a manual, of course. And, admittedly, a totally different experience other than both are fun toys.
I personally would like to own a Corvette one day but it has to be manual.
11-03-2023, 05:04 PM
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That is a great point and similar reason why I like the T over the Caymans, Boxster, and Corvetts, and I got my T at msrp so even more reason to stay away from anything with a markup
11-03-2023, 05:17 PM
I'm in the UK and picked up my new 992T on Monday. Its a Manual Gentian Blue car with only a few options and no RAS. It does have the printed owner's Manual to answer your question. I drove the 100 miles home from the dealer in truly biblical rain and the T was absolutely rock solid in terms of confidence. It's shod with Goodyears which I was very impressed with and a lot better then the Pirellis in my experience.
Tonight was the first chance I had to check what battery my Model year 24 has fitted after reading others had been fitted with the standard Lead battery. What a surprise to find a 60Ah Lithium Ion battery in mine which I truly wasn't expecting !
The car itself is truly wonderful and feels like a true 911 unlike my old 2019 992S PDK. It feels like a really lightweight car and has bags of character. Quite possibly my fav 911 to date excluding the various GT3s and RS' I've owned. For fun road use and little track work I think I prefer it over the GT3/RS.
Love the T so much more than I expected !
Tonight was the first chance I had to check what battery my Model year 24 has fitted after reading others had been fitted with the standard Lead battery. What a surprise to find a 60Ah Lithium Ion battery in mine which I truly wasn't expecting !
The car itself is truly wonderful and feels like a true 911 unlike my old 2019 992S PDK. It feels like a really lightweight car and has bags of character. Quite possibly my fav 911 to date excluding the various GT3s and RS' I've owned. For fun road use and little track work I think I prefer it over the GT3/RS.
Love the T so much more than I expected !
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11-03-2023, 05:21 PM
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I'm in the UK and picked up my new 992T on Monday. Its a Manual Gentian Blue car with only a few options and no RAS. It does have the printed owner's Manual to answer your question. I drove the 100 miles home from the dealer in truly biblical rain and the T was absolutely rock solid in terms of confidence. It's shod with Goodyears which I was very impressed with and a lot better then the Pirellis in my experience.
Tonight was the first chance I had to check what battery my Model year 24 has fitted after reading others had been fitted with the standard Lead battery. What a surprise to find a 60Ah Lithium Ion battery in mine which I truly wasn't expecting !
The car itself is truly wonderful and feels like a true 911 unlike my old 2019 992S PDK. It feels like a really lightweight car and has bags of character. Quite possibly my fav 911 to date excluding the various GT3s and RS' I've owned. For fun road use and little track work I think I prefer it over the GT3/RS.
Love the T so much more than I expected !
Tonight was the first chance I had to check what battery my Model year 24 has fitted after reading others had been fitted with the standard Lead battery. What a surprise to find a 60Ah Lithium Ion battery in mine which I truly wasn't expecting !
The car itself is truly wonderful and feels like a true 911 unlike my old 2019 992S PDK. It feels like a really lightweight car and has bags of character. Quite possibly my fav 911 to date excluding the various GT3s and RS' I've owned. For fun road use and little track work I think I prefer it over the GT3/RS.
Love the T so much more than I expected !
I am glad to see more people are driving in the rain, the T seems very capable in rain and I am sure snow, but tires will really play a part in that and assisting it the new Wet mode, it really does wonders
Also the crash avoidance system is pretty interesting too (helps break)
11-03-2023, 05:33 PM
Burning Brakes
Yes, I collected my T in June 2023 and it had printed manual.
I recall some Macan gen 2 owners had to wait for the manuals in 2019, so it happens, but eventually it’s sorted.
11-03-2023, 05:38 PM
Interesting, I just got an email from a dealer in the tri-state area offering me an allocation on a T for a June delivery. I am checking with my local dealer (who I am wait-listed at) who said he will let me know next week on allocations.
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Vernin (11-03-2023)
11-03-2023, 05:45 PM
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I think your mistaken on a few things,
One I did not cherry-pick the most expensive car, I just looked up Nurimburg Times, and it was close to 992 Cars,
Second, no BMW is going for their MSRP price, addendums, add-ons, options, you name it, like someone said already many many BMWs will go for 20k over stated MSRP.
You have $63,195 for an M2 at 3,814 pounds with 20k of options and everything it's an 83k car. Id rather have a flat six Cayman or a 911 T, for the less weight, the better handling.
Your BMW is not a sports car its a luxury car trying to be sporty.
I can fit 4 airplane carryons in my car two in the front, two behind me, a 28 Qart cooler and, 3 soft bags (backpacks), and another passenger in my T, if you want to talk about space, I think that is more than enough.
The other cars you mention sure they can beat a Porsche in a straight line, but I would love to see Corvets, mustangs, and Cameros, keeping up with Porsches on the track.
Those types of cars are literally only for going drag racing that is where they came from not for racing around a track, excluding the Corvette nowadays
I might have a pitcher of Porche Kool-Aid, but look at the facts, no BMW drives as solid as a 911. They are top-heavy, they have no feeling in the steering wheel. They have shocks made for the road, and comfort, not the track. I literally drove all the Competition BMWs on Circut de Americas for multiple laps, the feeling was not as good as a GT3rs, GT3, GTS, S, T, 2002 Boxster. I have driven all these extensively on a track. the BMW does not preform in the same category as any of these for handling.
One I did not cherry-pick the most expensive car, I just looked up Nurimburg Times, and it was close to 992 Cars,
Second, no BMW is going for their MSRP price, addendums, add-ons, options, you name it, like someone said already many many BMWs will go for 20k over stated MSRP.
You have $63,195 for an M2 at 3,814 pounds with 20k of options and everything it's an 83k car. Id rather have a flat six Cayman or a 911 T, for the less weight, the better handling.
Your BMW is not a sports car its a luxury car trying to be sporty.
I can fit 4 airplane carryons in my car two in the front, two behind me, a 28 Qart cooler and, 3 soft bags (backpacks), and another passenger in my T, if you want to talk about space, I think that is more than enough.
The other cars you mention sure they can beat a Porsche in a straight line, but I would love to see Corvets, mustangs, and Cameros, keeping up with Porsches on the track.
Those types of cars are literally only for going drag racing that is where they came from not for racing around a track, excluding the Corvette nowadays
I might have a pitcher of Porche Kool-Aid, but look at the facts, no BMW drives as solid as a 911. They are top-heavy, they have no feeling in the steering wheel. They have shocks made for the road, and comfort, not the track. I literally drove all the Competition BMWs on Circut de Americas for multiple laps, the feeling was not as good as a GT3rs, GT3, GTS, S, T, 2002 Boxster. I have driven all these extensively on a track. the BMW does not preform in the same category as any of these for handling.
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Vernin (11-03-2023)
11-03-2023, 05:53 PM
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I don’t know where you get this from. Corvettes, mustangs, and Camaros have been well represented on road courses for years in the US. Quite fast cars too competing with Porsches. And that’s both for casual track day junkies and for professional level. Done with this topic..
Look like you are correct. There are good times here from these cars, but I have not seen a single one under 7 minutes yet.
11-03-2023, 06:04 PM
Instructor
Base model? Isn’t this a T thread so the natural comparison would be to a T. The large leap many are taking is this. Some state the T is the sweet app or performance value in the 911 lineup. To extend that to being a value overall is a stretch. Some with 718s would laugh at you - maybe Adam? And that’s just another Porsche not to mention so many lower cost high performing street cars - as previously mentioned.
Reality is that very few would cross shop a new 911 against any of those. Or a Tesla model s performance or other fast things. The 911 is just different. That’s why I won’t let go of my m3 to have a 911.
Reality is that very few would cross shop a new 911 against any of those. Or a Tesla model s performance or other fast things. The 911 is just different. That’s why I won’t let go of my m3 to have a 911.
I'm selling my F80 ZCP in San Marino Blue (19k miles) and not looking back. Like someone mentioned above, it's not a sports car from the ground up. I never bonded much with it. It's practical and fast but MT is zero engaging, power is not very usable, breaks traction easily, steering is numb. Very practical around town and road trips, but missing something. I have an E46 M3 and will never sell that one.
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