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Love the SD front bumper appearance but, not going with it due to loss of active aero. Debris screens are a must no matter which option. Will probably add GT3 side skirts for rear flare protection and looks over the SD option. The Euro tag trim looks like a good compromise for the vast expanse of black on the backside. This T is starting to look like a 125K project car! Just kidding, tastefull additions are fun to make. Finally, spoke to SA today, he had no idea what the prep for camera really includes. Its cheap enough so Im going to give it a go and hope for the best,
Appreciate the thoughts! That leads me to think I'd be quite happy with Gentian. I've seen a few in person and it's eye-catching without being too loud a color.
i am also a GB 100% guy.. that has always been the only constant in my hundreds of builds.. debating between keeping side decal and get 911 on the back or remove sides and keep full carreraT on the back. Probably the former
Is there a tune shop that can get these GTS' to the GT3 9k rpm? or get the gt3 6:55ish Nürburgring lap time? This loss of allocation has caused some ego grief :-)
I'd be the wrong guy to ask. I'm sure someone will chime in here, but I'm not sure about changing the red line on an engine. I know there are some tuning companies like M Engineering and Litchfield, but you may want to ask in the GTS forum. I'm personally not into tuning, but you never know.
i am also a GB 100% guy.. that has always been the only constant in my hundreds of builds.. debating between keeping side decal and get 911 on the back or remove sides and keep full carreraT on the back. Probably the former
I'm also unsure about the side decal. Depends how tasteful it looks in person. Per the description of someone else on this thread, the side decal can pretty easily be removed with 3M adhesive remover so I'm leaning on leaving the decal in my build and taking it off if I don't like it.
I'm liking the Gentian Blue and gray accent color combo on the T. I'll swap out the orange side markers for clear after delivery, but will keep the normal tail lights. For me just 911 on the back is too small for how wide the rear is on this generation of 911. I'm leaning again on interior inlays in exterior color because it looks to work for the 992 with Gentian Blue as it's really just covering the piano gloss black and isn't as comprehensive as in some other generations.
I'd be the wrong guy to ask. I'm sure someone will chime in here, but I'm not sure about changing the red line on an engine. I know there are some tuning companies like M Engineering and Litchfield, but you may want to ask in the GTS forum. I'm personally not into tuning, but you never know.
I'm with you. Sounds unsafe with a tune to get a 9k redline without doing a full engine rebuild upgrade. You'll want to make sure all your tolerances and internals can handle a higher redline. That might mean forged pistons, rods, etc. That being said, I'm sure it'd sound amazing :-)
I'd be the wrong guy to ask. I'm sure someone will chime in here, but I'm not sure about changing the red line on an engine. I know there are some tuning companies like M Engineering and Litchfield, but you may want to ask in the GTS forum. I'm personally not into tuning, but you never know.
Okay I'll bite . . . why would you want to do that?? If you are unsure about it then that leads to believe you don't know the reason why the redline is set by Porsche.
doing it.
For some thime i was adding high gloss sd package because it looks so good, maybe except the rear fender that is..ok But with the T + grey accents, adding gloss black makes it too busy in my opinion. And the standard bumper is growing on me. 100% ill add them , probably order before the car arrives and have them install before delivery so they are also wrapped.
Since when did we collectively decide the slightly larger turbos on the S and GTS make them unresponsive in comparison to the base 3.0? As someone who's driven both, I find that to be false.
From the reviews I've seen, that's generally been the consensus. Same displacement, but larger turbos to spool up so more lag. Obviously still the faster and more powerful power plant, but the smaller turbos lead one closer to a naturally aspirated feel. Having not driven them back to back (and having not even really noticed a great amount of lag in a 991.2 GTS), I'm not sure that's a make or break decision.
I agree with balucipher. Having test driven base Carreras and comparing it with my manual S which has taller gears than the 8 speed PDK in the base Carrera, I never felt like my S had more turbo lag or made less power, or was at a disadvantage in acceleration at lower RPMs. Both cars felt like they had minimal turbolag and both cars felt very quick.
Here's a dyno chart comparision betwee a stock Carrera and Carrera S. As you can see, the S makes more power and torque at all RPMs. Perhaps below 2000 RPM the base Carrera may make more power/torque? But even if it does, who is lugging their engines below 2000 RPMs anyway?
I'm with you. Sounds unsafe with a tune to get a 9k redline without doing a full engine rebuild upgrade. You'll want to make sure all your tolerances and internals can handle a higher redline. That might mean forged pistons, rods, etc. That being said, I'm sure it'd sound amazing :-)
Yeah, and also when you sell the car someone will do a DME report (Over-Rev) and see the revs over the redline. When I sold my car to the dealer, I asked if they perform this report and he said 'yes, on every car' (manual of course).
The idea that the base engine has less turbo lag/more response seems to be a youtuberism. I'm not sure how one objectively measures turbo lag. I'm no expert on turbos but I suppose I could understand if smaller impeller and lower boost limit means it reaches boost quicker, but these must be generally imperceptible differences to most of us.
Is there a tune shop that can get these GTS' to the GT3 9k rpm? or get the gt3 6:55ish Nürburgring lap time? This loss of allocation has caused some ego grief :-)
Increasing the GTS's redline to 9K RPMs is not going to make for a faster Nurburgring time. It will, however, make for a more explosive lap.
Seriously though, it's not a lack of power that makes the GTS slower than a GT3. It's the handling bits - the double wishbone suspension, the more track tuned shocks and springs, the more track focused tuning of all the suspension components, etc. that makes the GT3 amazingly fast on a race track.
If you were to run a basic Stage 1 M Engineering tune on a GTS, it will out accelerate a GT3 in a straight line. But, it still won't beat it on the nurburgrning, but in day to day street driving, a stock GTS is far more car than virtually all of us can manage.
I agree with balucipher. Having test driven base Carreras and comparing it with my manual S which has taller gears than the 8 speed PDK in the base Carrera, I never felt like my S had more turbo lag or made less power, or was at a disadvantage in acceleration at lower RPMs. Both cars felt like they had minimal turbolag and both cars felt very quick.
Here's a dyno chart comparision betwee a stock Carrera and Carrera S. As you can see, the S makes more power and torque at all RPMs. Perhaps below 2000 RPM the base Carrera may make more power/torque? But even if it does, who is lugging their engines below 2000 RPMs anyway?
Not arguing either way because I haven't driven both to compare them, but dyno charts would be immaterial to whether vehicles have turbo lag or not. Since turbo lag is the time between pressing the throttle and the exhaust gases providing enough pressure to spool the turbo(s), it would not show on dyno graphs, which are typically done at full throttle. The phenomenon you are describing would show whether a turbo is appropriately sized for the engine, with undersized turbos peaking early and plummeting well before redline, and oversized turbos having large spikes of power late in the RPM band. Modern Porsche engines suffer from neither of these, so this would not be apparent in dyno graphs. Turbo lag feels like the throttle is slow to open, which is different than not producing power at lower RPMs.
Increasing the GTS's redline to 9K RPMs is not going to make for a faster Nurburgring time. It will, however, make for a more explosive lap.
Seriously though, it's not a lack of power that makes the GTS slower than a GT3. It's the handling bits - the double wishbone suspension, the more track tuned shocks and springs, the more track focused tuning of all the suspension components, etc. that makes the GT3 amazingly fast on a race track.
If you were to run a basic Stage 1 M Engineering tune on a GTS, it will out accelerate a GT3 in a straight line. But, it still won't beat it on the nurburgrning, but in day to day street driving, a stock GTS is far more car than virtually all of us can manage.
I suspect it's more aero than anything that counts when it comes to lap time advantages with the GT3, assuming the tires are identical. Exponentially more so with the new GT3RS. And if you don't have the skill to extract that capability (ie most of us in here) the sheer torque of a tuned GTS (or a stock TTS for that matter) would probably be of a greater advantage. It seems most who track the Turbo/S pretty much kill all.
For street driving, the advantages of the GT3 is primarily in the feel/steering of the car and the excitement (noise!!) of winding out that 4.0 to 9k, where it seems to get stronger the higher up the rev counter you go. You can't really replicate that in an FI motor - even the GT2RS redlines at 7k. Of course, no one said having monster low end torque isn't fun too. Just different.
Not arguing either way because I haven't driven both to compare them, but dyno charts would be immaterial to whether vehicles have turbo lag or not. Since turbo lag is the time between pressing the throttle and the exhaust gases providing enough pressure to spool the turbo(s), it would not show on dyno graphs, which are typically done at full throttle. The phenomenon you are describing would show whether a turbo is appropriately sized for the engine, with undersized turbos peaking early and plummeting well before redline, and oversized turbos having large spikes of power late in the RPM band. Modern Porsche engines suffer from neither of these, so this would not be apparent in dyno graphs. Turbo lag feels like the throttle is slow to open, which is different than not producing power at lower RPMs.
Having driven both, the slight size difference in the turbos between the base engine and the S has minimal effect on experienced turbo lag. Porsche engineered an incredible power train for these in every level and the experience is excellent in all of them.
If I had the extra cash or an allocation for a S or GTS, I'd go down that route. They're not bad, laggy or worse in any way compared to the T. The cheaper T trim is nice because it's a discount GTS - it aims for maximum driver enjoyment with the base engine, just like the GTS aims for maximum driver enjoyment with the uprated 3.0 engine.
I keep eyeing the used 911 market and watch things rapidly drop in price and wonder if a 991.2 GT3 might hit that magic $150k mark again as discussed above. Might be worth stretching the budget for that, especially because I can swap over a lot of the mods in my 718T (DSC controller, clear corners, antigravity battery, p1 seat inserts if I find one with buckets). Because that'll be more fun and hold value stronger than the 992 T.
11-30-2022, 07:36 PM
