A place to discuss all things ADM
#4831
Every-time I open this thread hoping to get some updates on the ADM situation, its just a bunch of rich babies arguing about nonsensical things. Y'all need to get a life instead of giving unsolicited advise online to other people about how they should spend their money.
If Ron Swanson was on this forum, he would say : "This is America. If someone wants to pay a $200k ADM on a Gt3 and go broke, they should be allowed to. That is the beauty of this country."
If Ron Swanson was on this forum, he would say : "This is America. If someone wants to pay a $200k ADM on a Gt3 and go broke, they should be allowed to. That is the beauty of this country."
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#4832
But luxury homes are by no means a necessity - it’s the same concept. I’m guessing you didn’t answer my question because (rightfully) you would say the price should increase because demand has increased.
Also (more importantly) I think it’s funny to say we should set fixed prices for luxury goods but for goods that are necessities they shouldn’t be regulated? That doesn’t make sense - even though I disagree, I could see arguments for setting fixed prices for necessities (standard housing, certain food, etc - people need those things to live) but not Porsches. It’s just that IMHO the free market should apply to pretty much all things (and yes I get there are plenty of downsides to that).
Also (more importantly) I think it’s funny to say we should set fixed prices for luxury goods but for goods that are necessities they shouldn’t be regulated? That doesn’t make sense - even though I disagree, I could see arguments for setting fixed prices for necessities (standard housing, certain food, etc - people need those things to live) but not Porsches. It’s just that IMHO the free market should apply to pretty much all things (and yes I get there are plenty of downsides to that).
Last edited by usctrojanGT3; 02-09-2023 at 02:30 PM.
#4833
I would add…
Dealer allocates to those on a ‘list’ at MSRP (after taking care of their VIPs/good customers). I’ve been able to secure 2 GT3s at MSRP at 2 different dealers by being on a list. No strings attached / no trades / no buying regular cars. Once you take delivery of the GT3, it’s a perfect opportunity to keep doing business with them.
This is a dying way though, a few years ago 3 of the 4 dealers in my area did things this way, now only 1. The others go to repeat customers at MSRP or folks willing to buy regular cars at MSRP.
Dealer allocates to those on a ‘list’ at MSRP (after taking care of their VIPs/good customers). I’ve been able to secure 2 GT3s at MSRP at 2 different dealers by being on a list. No strings attached / no trades / no buying regular cars. Once you take delivery of the GT3, it’s a perfect opportunity to keep doing business with them.
This is a dying way though, a few years ago 3 of the 4 dealers in my area did things this way, now only 1. The others go to repeat customers at MSRP or folks willing to buy regular cars at MSRP.
How do you think all these delivery mile cars end up for sale on the used market at non Porsche stores, BAT, auctions, etc? It's always some b.s. excuse by the seller (private party) that circumstances changed, suddenly got an RS allocation, my dog doesn't like the car, the wife won't fit in the backseat, etc. etc. This is why Porsche dealers have no incentive to sell at MSRP when the market supports sizeable ADMs. They would basically be gifting these Porsche "enthusiast" schmucks $50k or $75k and when the dealer has all the overhead, expenses, etc, and the cars would end up getting flipped anyway. Sure there are exceptions, but more often then not, the financial incentive is substantial enough to tilt the scale in the favor of opportunistic behavior, particularly when many of these cars primarily serve as C&C ***** extensions or get rubbed with a diaper bi monthly and get driven once every 3 months.
#4834
Every-time I open this thread hoping to get some updates on the ADM situation, its just a bunch of rich babies arguing about nonsensical things. Y'all need to get a life instead of giving unsolicited advise online to other people about how they should spend their money.
If Ron Swanson was on this forum, he would say : "This is America. If someone wants to pay a $200k ADM on a Gt3 and go broke, they should be allowed to. That is the beauty of this country."
If Ron Swanson was on this forum, he would say : "This is America. If someone wants to pay a $200k ADM on a Gt3 and go broke, they should be allowed to. That is the beauty of this country."
#4835
It can't be an all or nothing. What would happen to society if everything that we buy (necessity or luxury good) would be based upon current market price? It was be completely insane. Yes, non-low income housing is driven by market price but there aren't large dealers who control that inventory and supply as it's a fairly liquid and dynamic market. If Rolex gets their dealers to sell their watches for MSRP and all other countries in the world sell desirable GT cars for MSRP, then the same can apply to US Porsche dealers. Or let's do the opposite, have all the US dealers spec their own cars and sell them to the highest bidder....how would you like that? That would be pure capitalism, right?
#4836
This practice would probably work well in a perfect world, however even those loyal Porsche purists that everyone says should get a car will often flip their car shortly after delivery when there is a $40k, $50k or $75k incentive to do so. That's why there's only 1 dealer in your market doing this now. These dealers aren't dumb - they know the game.
How do you think all these delivery mile cars end up for sale on the used market at non Porsche stores, BAT, auctions, etc? It's always some b.s. excuse by the seller (private party) that circumstances changed, suddenly got an RS allocation, my dog doesn't like the car, the wife won't fit in the backseat, etc. etc. This is why Porsche dealers have no incentive to sell at MSRP when the market supports sizeable ADMs. They would basically be gifting these Porsche "enthusiast" schmucks $50k or $75k and when the dealer has all the overhead, expenses, etc, and the cars would end up getting flipped anyway. Sure there are exceptions, but more often then not, the financial incentive is substantial enough to tilt the scale in the favor of opportunistic behavior, particularly when many of these cars primarily serve as C&C ***** extensions or get rubbed with a diaper bi monthly and get driven once every 3 months.
How do you think all these delivery mile cars end up for sale on the used market at non Porsche stores, BAT, auctions, etc? It's always some b.s. excuse by the seller (private party) that circumstances changed, suddenly got an RS allocation, my dog doesn't like the car, the wife won't fit in the backseat, etc. etc. This is why Porsche dealers have no incentive to sell at MSRP when the market supports sizeable ADMs. They would basically be gifting these Porsche "enthusiast" schmucks $50k or $75k and when the dealer has all the overhead, expenses, etc, and the cars would end up getting flipped anyway. Sure there are exceptions, but more often then not, the financial incentive is substantial enough to tilt the scale in the favor of opportunistic behavior, particularly when many of these cars primarily serve as C&C ***** extensions or get rubbed with a diaper bi monthly and get driven once every 3 months.
for example, I got mine at MSRP… they could’ve easily sold the allocation for more but their GM must think that selling new at MSRP is the best long term value for them / other dealers think taking the quick ADM is best
Last edited by DodoBrd; 02-09-2023 at 02:49 PM.
#4837
It can't be an all or nothing. What would happen to society if everything that we buy (necessity or luxury good) would be based upon current market price? It was be completely insane. Yes, non-low income housing is driven by market price but there aren't large dealers who control that inventory and supply as it's a fairly liquid and dynamic market. If Rolex gets their dealers to sell their watches for MSRP and all other countries in the world sell desirable GT cars for MSRP, then the same can apply to US Porsche dealers. Or let's do the opposite, have all the US dealers spec their own cars and sell them to the highest bidder....how would you like that? That would be pure capitalism, right?
It's what generally happened 20 years ago, even with GT cars. Very few people actually spec'd a car, they just bought what was on the dealer lot.
I mean, how many people who originally bought a 7.2 4.0 actually spec'd the car, as opposed to just buying it (at a discount) off of existing inventory?
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av12345 (02-09-2023)
#4838
I'm ok with that.
It's what generally happened 20 years ago, even with GT cars. Very few people actually spec'd a car, they just bought what was on the dealer lot.
I mean, how many people who originally bought a 7.2 4.0 actually spec'd the car, as opposed to just buying it (at a discount) off of existing inventory?
It's what generally happened 20 years ago, even with GT cars. Very few people actually spec'd a car, they just bought what was on the dealer lot.
I mean, how many people who originally bought a 7.2 4.0 actually spec'd the car, as opposed to just buying it (at a discount) off of existing inventory?
#4839
It can't be an all or nothing. What would happen to society if everything that we buy (necessity or luxury good) would be based upon current market price? It was be completely insane. Yes, non-low income housing is driven by market price but there aren't large dealers who control that inventory and supply as it's a fairly liquid and dynamic market. If Rolex gets their dealers to sell their watches for MSRP and all other countries in the world sell desirable GT cars for MSRP, then the same can apply to US Porsche dealers. Or let's do the opposite, have all the US dealers spec their own cars and sell them to the highest bidder....how would you like that? That would be pure capitalism, right?
#4840
You live in the US right? Pretty much everything you buy is based upon current market price / demand (some goods just have stickier prices than others) … the way we mainly deal with people who can’t afford things is by giving them welfare / or giving suppliers subsidies. Not saying it’s the best model but our society still stands today without setting fixed prices for a bunch of things. We don’t set prices for milk and eggs… yet. And if dealers want to spec every single GT car (even every single Porsche) and then sell it - go ahead - I’m not sure that’s a smart business model but if it is - do it - maximize profits.
No thank you.
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AlexCeres (02-11-2023)
#4841
actually, 3 of the 4 dealers still sell at MSRP… but 2 of them either require high levels of loyalty or strings attached. I don’t eliminating flipping is a viable option… it’s hard to take a pass on $75k even as a Porsche enthusiast. There will always be flippers in hot markets. PCNA is focused on importing, marketing, training, supporting service… the dealers are small businesses that should be able to make the best decisions they seem fit. IMO
for example, I got mine at MSRP… they could’ve easily sold the allocation for more but their GM must think that selling new at MSRP is the best long term value for them / other dealers think taking the quick ADM is best
for example, I got mine at MSRP… they could’ve easily sold the allocation for more but their GM must think that selling new at MSRP is the best long term value for them / other dealers think taking the quick ADM is best
#4842
actually, 3 of the 4 dealers still sell at MSRP… but 2 of them either require high levels of loyalty or strings attached. I don’t eliminating flipping is a viable option… it’s hard to take a pass on $75k even as a Porsche enthusiast. There will always be flippers in hot markets. PCNA is focused on importing, marketing, training, supporting service… the dealers are small businesses that should be able to make the best decisions they seem fit. IMO
for example, I got mine at MSRP… they could’ve easily sold the allocation for more but their GM must think that selling new at MSRP is the best long term value for them / other dealers think taking the quick ADM is best
for example, I got mine at MSRP… they could’ve easily sold the allocation for more but their GM must think that selling new at MSRP is the best long term value for them / other dealers think taking the quick ADM is best
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Yargk (02-13-2023)
#4843
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 13,409
Likes: 4,592
From: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Authorized dealers are middle men, and I don't see anything anti-capitalist with the manufacturer setting the price (or price range) at which the dealer is allowed to sell the car for, if they want to remain an authorized dealer. This is the case with many brands of many kinds of products.
For example, I've bought six figures worth of music gear over the past couple years, and there was an explosion in demand for this gear because of the pandemic. Because of the high demand and issues with supply chains, for some things I had to put in an order and wait over a year to get it. There was never any ADM on any of this gear, possibly because there was too much competition to allow it, or maybe the manufacturers didn't allow it. For some brands, zero discount was allowed, you had to pay MSRP, no matter how loyal a customer you are. For other brands, substantial discounts below MSRP were allowed, and I've generally gotten the max discounts without having to haggle because I've been a volume buyer.
For example, I've bought six figures worth of music gear over the past couple years, and there was an explosion in demand for this gear because of the pandemic. Because of the high demand and issues with supply chains, for some things I had to put in an order and wait over a year to get it. There was never any ADM on any of this gear, possibly because there was too much competition to allow it, or maybe the manufacturers didn't allow it. For some brands, zero discount was allowed, you had to pay MSRP, no matter how loyal a customer you are. For other brands, substantial discounts below MSRP were allowed, and I've generally gotten the max discounts without having to haggle because I've been a volume buyer.
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Yargk (02-13-2023)
#4844
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 13,409
Likes: 4,592
From: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
#4845
Regardless, whether you are small, medium, or large… a business should be able to decide how to operate its business.